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Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by jedberg on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:15PM (#21205345)
> How more secure would something like that generally be compared to static passwords?

It's not secure at all. If someone knows the rules of the system, the entropy on that is tiny, because it's basically a 2 letter password with only 6/3 options.

The only security would be from the obscurity of the attacker not knowing the password rules.

Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by Razengan on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:29PM (#21205530)
> because it's basically a 2 letter password with only 6/3 options.

That was obviously an oversimplified example to explain the rules.

In practice you could make it as obscure as you want, while keeping it easy for you to remember.

Like the sentences I just typed here. No limit on the number of characters. I could enter different long sentences each time, as long as the characters at specific positions match certain sets.

Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by jerf on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:55PM (#21205881)
There is no way that "use a (proper) subset of the characters for bits of entropy" is going to beat "use all the characters for bits of entropy". Almost by definition, the second is going to have more entropy.

You're not getting anywhere, because people trying to guess your password don't have to guess your scheme. All you're doing is making it easier for them. There is no sense in which you are making it harder.

In the optimum case, you'd require them to get the right characters in the slots you're counting, but to not use the wrong characters in the slots you're not counting, thus demonstrating that they actually know the scheme in question and aren't just getting lucky. There would be exactly one character you'd accept in the slot you're counting, and there would be exactly one character they could use to indicate they understand your pattern in the slots you're not counting. This maximizes the chance they have proved to be in possession of your password, rather than just getting lucky because you didn't count their misses. This is, of course, simply using a password normally.

Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by dkonofalski on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:11PM (#21206091)
That's just the same thing as a password, though. Even a short password is still just ensuring that specific characters are in specific positions. The only situation where this would be useful is against people with physical or viewable access to the password being typed.
Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by OJFord on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:59PM (#21205943)
> In practice you could make it as obscure as you want,

If only that made it as secure as you want.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by Gene_Parmesan on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:15PM (#21207492)
And they would almost certainly know the password rules, because anyone making an account would have to be told the rules in order to understand what was happening.
Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by shhsshs on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @07:12PM (#21209218)
Unless the rules were unique and hidden for each user!

    User1: 1,3,7,10,12,15
    User2: 2,3,5,8,10,13
I think we’re on to something big.
Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by waway on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @11:27PM (#21210598)
It's complicated enough for people to remember 8 character long passwords, good luck with an additional level of complexity.
Re:Ken Thompson's Unix Password by Razengan on Thursday October 10, 2019 @12:40AM (#21210949)
Each user could provide their own rules.