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Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by leshow on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:00PM (#21150735)
> Note, this article is recent and highly relevant..

Talk about fear mongering, that article is horrible. It's the same old argument. "Child abuse is bad therefore you can't have any privacy", they position you as being against protecting children when your stance is actually pro security & privacy.

Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by SamBam on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:17PM (#21150923)
I think that reasonable people can hold both f̶a̶c̶t̶s̶ things in their heads at the same time

1. Privacy is important and good

2. It has almost certainly contributed to an explosion in the production and sharing of child pornography and abuse

The question is what is the moral way to reconcile the two, not to deny that either exists.

Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by concordDance on Friday October 04, 2019 @03:47AM (#21155647)
Very unconvinced it's lead to an explosion is child abuse.

Child abuse has always been happening (several of the older members of my family were abused), it just wasn't broadcasted. Even today I bet 99% of child abuse is never caught on camera. The increase from child porn is probably negligible.

Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by SamBam on Friday October 04, 2019 @10:32AM (#21158081)
If you actually read the article above, you can see that there's actually now lots of new evidence that viewing child porn makes people more likely to commit abuse, and that it seems to be a causal relationship, not a "marijuana is a gateway drug" relationship.
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by concordDance on Saturday October 05, 2019 @04:41AM (#21164429)
I couldn't find that in the article and would be immensely skeptical of such a claim (how on earth would you establish causation as opposed to common cause?).
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by lonelappde on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:22PM (#21150987)
Neither of those two things are facts. One is an opinion, and the other is speculation.
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by cameronbrown on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:39PM (#21151182)
When did GP specify he was talking about facts?
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by SamBam on Thursday October 03, 2019 @04:01PM (#21151466)
I edited my comment from "facts" to "things," which was actually what I meant. Apologies. I'll clarify, so as not to disparage the person who replied.
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by swagonomixxx on Thursday October 03, 2019 @04:32PM (#21151855)
Great points. It definitely seems to me that those two are fundamentally opposites. Suppose we champion (1), then with perfect privacy gives a lot of leeway for criminals to commit crimes such as those you stated and more without being able to detect that they did them.

However, without perfect privacy, every world citizen would be subjected to such monitoring, and we'll basically be exactly what 1984 is, with the metaphorical "telescreen" functionality spread across pretty much every device that's connected to a network.

Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by saagarjha on Thursday October 03, 2019 @04:49PM (#21152032)
They’re not complete opposites, since criminals don’t always have perfect privacy: they leave other evidence that can be discovered with a warrant. On the flip side, mass surveillance will just create selective enforcement.
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by IfOnlyYouKnew on Thursday October 03, 2019 @03:26PM (#21151026)
The article never makes the argument you're objecting to. It merely states that E2E is likely to allow certain crimes to avoid detection. That seems both plausible as well as empirically correct considering their whatsapp/messenger comparison.
Re:Attorney General will ask Zuckerberg to halt plans for en... by spsful on Friday October 04, 2019 @11:16AM (#21158495)
Exactly. I see it from those exact same perspectives.

The USA took steps to actually protect property in its founding, something the Supreme Court has interpreted to include privacy as well. From this perspective, the rights of citizens wither away when the government is allowed to take the smallest step towards mass surveillance. For that reason I am very much against it.

My other perspective is from a security standpoint. I believe that if companies are not doing everything in their power to protect themselves and their users from data loss / hacking / theft, they put everyone at risk. Intentionally lessening the security of a product at the request of the US government means giving a potential thief or hacker more attack vectors to exploit.