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Re:Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contrac... by joshuamorton on Friday September 27, 2019 @08:01PM (#21097364)
You're relying on literal freeman-of-the-land nonsense at this point. For a judge to conclude that you-in-a-decade is a different person than you-now, the law would have to allow that possibility. Our current laws don't. Your proposed legal system would.

In other words, your proposed legal system would prevent someone from signing over some rights to their future self. Your ethical reasoning behind this choice is irrelevant. The mechanics of your proposed laws would make certain contracts void.

As I've said before, courts cannot make decisions in a vacuum. They need laws to rule based on. The laws that would need to exist to enable the system you want in practice restrict the freedom to contract that you claim to leave unrestricted.

You try to avoid this contradiction by wrapping it up in the idea that you can be a different person in ten years, but current laws don't recognize that, and the only reason you'd need such a law is to resolve this contradiction without explicitly limiting the contract. It's transparent. I expect I could find more contradictions, but you'd similarly attempt special pleading for those cases.

Re:Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contrac... by CryptoPunk on Monday September 30, 2019 @06:51PM (#21120418)
>>You're relying on literal freeman-of-the-land nonsense at this point. For a judge to conclude that you-in-a-decade is a different person than you-now, the law would have to allow that possibility. Our current laws don't. Your proposed legal system would.

No, that is not how common law works. Common law holds consent as a core principle of contract law. Courts take all manner of factors into consideration in determining whether parties gave consent.

Courts will most certainly consider the genuity of the consent a person gave 10 years prior to being foribly confined and made to labor for another.

You're using ideologically extremism and bigotry with your "free man of the land" nonsense accusation, which is intended to belittle and delegitimize me, and avoid contending with my point on its own merits.

>>They need laws to rule based on.

That is not how commom law works. Commom law is based on existing statutes and legal precedent. In the absence of the former, the latter suffices. Contract law in particular is based almost exclusively on common law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent

>>You try to avoid this contradiction by wrapping it up in the idea that you can be a different person in ten years, but current laws don't recognize that

The argument has never been tested in court. I'm suggesting the argument would be accepted by a court, and you've provided no reason to believe it wouldn't.

Re:Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contrac... by joshuamorton on Monday September 30, 2019 @07:00PM (#21120472)
Precedent is against you, however: you cannot claim to be a different person under current common law. To overrule the existing precedent, you would need a new law, which is what I said.

> Courts will most certainly consider the genuity of the consent a person gave 10 years prior to being foribly confined and made to labor for another.

In the hypothetical, we've already agreed that the consent given was genuine. The question isn't whether or not the consent was genuine, the answer to that is a resounding "yes". The question is "is the person now, 10 years later, a different person such that their prior genuine consent no longer applies"? This question can be rephrased as "Is there a way to re-invent myself as a new legal being and avoid prior obligations and agreements at no consequence to myself?" They are in fact the same question. And courts time and time again have resoundingly answered that question with a no. A group that consistently tries to argue otherwise is freemen of the land. Hence me throwing you in with them, because you're using their (nonsense) arguments. Thankfully we've seen them try those arguments in court before, and they never win.

> I'm suggesting the argument would be accepted by a court, and you've provided no reason to believe it wouldn't.

Let me just repeat that last bit: these arguments have been tried, by the freemen of the land whose comparison you so resent. They never win. Courts have tested and failed these arguments because they are bad arguments.

Re:Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contrac... by CryptoPunk on Friday October 04, 2019 @04:18AM (#21155796)
You have not shown that precedent is against me. Where has this argument been tested and rejected?

>>The question isn't whether or not the consent was genuine, the answer to that is a resounding "yes". The question is "is the person now, 10 years later, a different person such that their prior genuine consent no longer applies"

That goes to the question of whethee the consent was genuine. Consent is not genuine when it is provided on behalf of another party.

>>This question can be rephrased as "Is there a way to re-invent myself as a new legal being and avoid prior obligations and agreements at no consequence to myself?"

A disingenuous leading construction of the question..

And being considered a different person does not allow one to avoid all obligations and agreements that their pass self entered into. All property bounded by past agreements would still be bound, and the vast majority of agreements use property as collateral to compel compliance.

Only self-imposed slavery would be nullified by such an affirmative response to the question.

This has nothing to do with your "freemen-of-the-land" nonsense accusation.

I'd be open to seeing a single court case where someone used the "they are not their past self" argument to get out of their legal obligations.