By the numbers, bathtubs consistently kill more americans than terrorists have in the last several decades.

It's not about the numbers, it's all about not being an absolute disgrace while handling the topic.

If your political beliefs change based on how their presented I don't think they're very firmly held.

Your above post was awfully inflammatory for someone not interested in discussion.

Did the moderators take a vacation or something? This whole thread is a raging flame war.

There are only two moderators, so I hope they can be forgiven for being late on a thread here or there.

I suggest you do as I did and flag the offensive flamebait comments. You need to click through to each individual comment (the nnn hours/minutes ago links) to see the flag link. I think you also need some minimum karma/reputation but don't know the specific number.

> There are only two moderators, so I hope they can be forgiven for missing a thread here or there.

Never did figure out, are dang and scbt doing this on some kind of part-time / volunteer basis?

> I suggest you do as I did and flag the offensive flamebait comments.

Did hours ago...

The New Yorker had a really nice article about Dan and Scott a few weeks ago - recommended reading!

https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-silicon-valley/th...

From the article: "Gackle and Bell are the only Y Combinator employees working on the site. In addition to moderating it, they maintain its technical infrastructure."

On the flagging, you may not see anything happen for some time after you flag a comment - or sometimes you may find that your flag was the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back" and the comment immediately changes to [flagged] [dead].

Indeed Obama was "deporter in chief" - all presidents are.

However, the rule of law was still enforced. Obama concentrated on immigrants with a criminal record and those "picked up" at the border. Family separation was rare, and there was an advocacy and appeal process. USCIS judges were not silenced and neutered. It was far from a perfect system, but there was an attempt to make it compassionate.

This is why the numbers don't tell the whole story. G.W returned more than Obama, Clinton more than G.W., H.W. more than Clinton.

This is not a Obama vs Trump issue - this is a "Every US President in modern history" vs Trump issue. It is possible to enforce immigration laws compassionately. It is not hypocrisy to call this out.

You're focusing on numbers of detainees when the larger issue is the treatment of those detainees. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21052376

This is why people are crying whataboutism. "Attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument," per Wikipedia.

Downvoters: I'm curious if you believe my facts are incorrect, or if you're just downvoting because you don't like my politics.

It strikes me as a sort of whataboutism

I'm beginning to hate this term. It's recent popularity has a tendency to turn everything into a reductionist argument. It shuts down discussion about the bigger picture or broad ideals in favor of a very narrow band of discourse.

Join the club! One useful phrase to keep in mind is "Chinese Robber Fallacy"[0] (edit: and for more than just spotting questionable uses of "whataboutism"[1]). It's "where you use a generic problem to attack a specific person or group, even though other groups have the problem just as much (or even more so)."

Of course if you engage in this sort of "fallacy fallacy!" argument style, you rapidly get far from the discussion on the actual topic. The best move is probably just not to play.

[0] https://rationalconspiracy.com/2015/03/08/the-chinese-robber...

[1] https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/09/16/cardiologists-and-chin...

No, engaging in whataboutism is what shuts down discussion, highlighting it merely serves to mitigate the effects.

You're not wrong, for what it's worth. Sorry you're getting downvoted.

It's cool, I'm used to it.