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Re:AgileFall – When Waterfall Sneaks Back into Agile by jrochkind1 on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @09:48AM (#21005390)
I have seen managers thinking the best thing about "agile" is enforcing staff discipline and maximal productivity ("stay on track", "press you ahead", "can not be too lazy"). It usually leads to a process that it really is still waterfall, but with, like, total surveillance and constant stress and developers being treated as interchangeable widgets.

It is sad to me to see a non-manager saying this is somehow the part they _like_.

The best experience I've had with agile processes was also one of the least stressful and most relaxing workplaces I've been in. I knew what I had to work on, I could trust that it was the _right_ thing to work on that wouldn't be a waste of time, and I had no pressure to "push myself", what could get done in work hours was what could get done in work hours, and sometimes you had to schedule some R&D/exploration time too. (The analogy of "sprint" is actually alarming when you think about how it's used -- you can only "sprint" for a short distance, you can't do back-to-back springs for 20 miles, the human body doesn't work that way!)

I think that may actually be one of the fundamental divides in "agile", whether someone is trying to use it as a productivity tool to "press ahead" developers who would otherwise be "lazy", to squeeze out the maximum possible work out of them, being unconcerned if you burn them out cause you can just replace them with another commoditized developer slotted into the "scrum".

Re:AgileFall – When Waterfall Sneaks Back into Agile by himynameisdom on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @10:52AM (#21006016)
I would agree the word "sprint" can conjure up a bad picture, but the agile manifesto clearly states the team should work at a sustainable pace. Nowhere in the Scrum Guide does it say you must work at a breakneck speed.

Inputs for sprint planning include the relevant empirical data (velocity, burn down/up etc.) to help with planning. In my experience, these data points are used to measure productivity, which is dangerous. Companies end up measuring success by outputs, rather than outcomes.

Business units need to stop weaponizing Agile and realize they too need to change in order to inspect and adapt towards building things people want.

Re:AgileFall – When Waterfall Sneaks Back into Agile by jrochkind1 on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @12:51PM (#21007254)
I agree that it is not inherent to Agile. (I'm more suspicious of "scrum", but I'll believe you that it's not either).

Like I said, I've had GREAT experiences with agile practices, my _favorite_ workplaces have been using agile practices. Also terrible ones. Knowing that the terrible ones were "doing agile wrong" didn't make them less terrible.

I even said very explicitly "It turns into a process that is more like waterfall, but..." So I'm a bit perturbed by your response insisting that this is not inherent to agile. When I was pretty explicit in saying that too.

LOTS of companies _saying_ their doing agile result in misery, even worse than before they pretended to do agile. On the other hand, doing agile well can be wonderful. In order to figure out how to make more of the wonderful than the terrible, we have to get _beyond_ just pointing out that "the agile manifesto clearly states". Cause it's clearly stated that already, and it hasn't stopped the terrible.

Re:AgileFall – When Waterfall Sneaks Back into Agile by ausjke on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @11:22AM (#21006346)
think about sprint as a 9-5 daily running event, rest at nights and weekends, that should be sustainable.

what is not sustainable is keeping working day and night for long period of time I feel.

Re:AgileFall – When Waterfall Sneaks Back into Agile by ausjke on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @11:23AM (#21006360)
biggest issue with agile is the intentional ignorance of document, so any newcomer had to spend countless time to just get up to speed
Re:AgileFall – When Waterfall Sneaks Back into Agile by notmyfuture on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @02:13PM (#21008266)
In classic waterfall type process, big requirements/design docs were often not updated after initial creation, so were often wrong/misleading if you read them as a newcomer. Good doc seems to me more about values/competence of the team vs. which process they use.