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Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by agumonkey on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:10PM (#20997534)
There's an issue though. You spend time as you please and its fine, but ultimately current society revolves on exchanging services in a semi quantifiable manner (transactions at price). You cannot live on free contributions. I find this hybrid situation too paradoxical.
Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by wvenable on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:38PM (#20997902)
There is no shortage of businesses and individuals that will pay you to write software!

What you're saying is that someone who might enjoy gardening as a hobby should be able to make a living mowing other people's lawns for free. Which is, of course, as ridiculous as expecting to make a living on free software contributions.

We already have a perfectly good system for exchanging goods and services for money. Free software is not that system and that is fine. The issue comes from misunderstanding what that system is and how it compares to basic capitalism.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by dumbfoundded on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:15PM (#20997611)
How is it different than any other sort of hobby or volunteering?
Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by dkersten on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @02:07PM (#20998265)
Most hobbies don’t provide potentially large financial upside to some corporation who is unwilling to give you something in return.

If my hobby is to bake cakes, there isn’t typically some corporation making money off my cakes.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by wvenable on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @02:22PM (#20998464)
If your hobby was making cake designs and you share them on the Internet to whomever wants them with a license that allows even businesses to use your designs then we are right back where we started.

That's still a perfectly valid hobby.

P.S. You give away your designs because everyone else does and you get this big collection of free cake designs to bake. That's worth more to you in your cake baking hobby than selling your designs and making it a business. Invariably someone comes along and sees all this huge body of cake designs and says "This collection is worth money, you should be rich" and completely misunderstands the whole situation.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by dkersten on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @03:51PM (#20999344)
Sure, but that’s a rather different hobby which may or may not be something you’re in to.

> That's still a perfectly valid hobby.

Of course. There are many hobbies which can financially support you, but there are lots of hobbies that don’t. Most hobbyist sports for example wouldn’t make anybody any money, but that’s fine, you do it for yourself. But the point I was making in my previous comment is that corporations aren’t making profits off the back of your hobby either.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by wvenable on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @04:08PM (#20999516)
If you build a chair, you have a single chair.

If you build some software, you can share that an infinite number of times.

That chair has value. Maybe you can sell it, but maybe you just wanted to make a really nice chair.

That software has value. Maybe you can sell it, but maybe you just wanted to make a really nice piece of software. But just because the software is infinitely copy-able doesn't make it worth infinite dollars.

That last point is really the only important one and it makes no difference, to me, as the developer. I just want to make cool software. It just so happens that software is infinitely copy-able and chairs are not. The production side is the same.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by dkersten on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @05:14PM (#21000158)
Well, sure, I’m not even really arguing that its a bad thing. Personally, any code I publish online, I put under the MIT license because I don’t really care if people use it commercially or not. Its also the same argument used to say “piracy” isn’t harmful.

I’m just pointing out that in open-source-as-a-hobby its very common that large corporations, who may or may not give back to the community themselves, derive profits off of hobbyist work while this is less common with other hobbies. Even if it doesn’t financially hurt the hobbyist, it can be demoralising (although others love it, so to each their own, I suppose — that’s why we have different licenses)

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by wvenable on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @05:30PM (#21000280)
I don't think it's simultaneously fair to release code in an open source license that allows commercial use and then be demoralized by that commercial use. The problem there is clearly one's own.

Companies may use open source software but they don't directly or indirectly profit from it; they can only profit from the value they provide on top of it. Software that is free for everyone cannot be a distinguishing feature.

Contributing to open source software, even if used by for-profit entities, is increasing the total state-of-the-art for the entire industry. If you are demoralized by that then you probably want a job, not a hobby.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by dkersten on Wednesday September 18, 2019 @07:57AM (#21004354)
I don’t disagree, when I release under MIT, I’m basically saying “go ahead and do what you please under these simple terms”. I suppose this is why people release under GPLv3 or AGPL. I’m just trying to provide commentary on why I think people are bothered by commercial use without giving back. Ultimately, I think you’re right: if I release under a permissive license, I shouldn’t get upset if people use it.
Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by dumbfoundded on Thursday September 19, 2019 @03:22PM (#21019674)
I've seen a couple different camps of OSS. Some people do it to scratch their own itch. Like building a tool because it was fun to do or solved a problem the author had. This is the perfect case for OSS. People rarely care about reuse in this case.

The other case is a project desperately needed by the community and every corporation is making their own internal version of that code. No one really wants to commit the next 10 years of their life to it but someone eventually does sensing the need. The author gets many stars and forks but almost no money. Corporations then want to twist the library to their own specific needs while an individual or small team build a necessary tool but there's no business model. Then either a corporation adopts the repo to keep it going or the author tries to turn it into a business. Both of these outcomes rarely succeed for the wider needed but no one's really willing to pay for it.

These are super broad generalizations. The big problem seems to be when some software is really needed, someone steps in to build it and then no one pays them. Need != business model.

Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by PeterStuer on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:13PM (#20997583)
What makes you think a society relying on margin maximizing businesses is the better choice?
Re:The Internet Relies on People Working for Free by agumonkey on Tuesday September 17, 2019 @01:23PM (#20997707)
I'm not putting one above the other, I'm saying the right now you cannot live out of contribution. It's not a standalone option. I wish we could all contribute improvements, as you say, there are high chances that it would lead to a better society overall.