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Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by aphextron on Saturday September 14, 2019 @10:55AM (#20971171)
>Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish.

They exist entirely at the behest of their respective nation states' laws and regulations, and are completely subordinate to all official law enforcement and military forces. It's a flawed analogy. This would be tantamount to a private military company asserting their right to conduct foreign wars in the name of a subset of citizens.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by zbolian on Saturday September 14, 2019 @11:06AM (#20971242)
The monetary policy of the currencies underlying libra are also fully determined at the behest of their respective nation states (or centralized monetary authority in the case of the EU). So, actually not that flawed. Governments and central banks are foolish to not get behind something like this because the alternative is something they can't influence at all like Bitcoin which maintains no peg to anything they do.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by HashThis on Saturday September 14, 2019 @12:31PM (#20971854)
> ... no peg to anything they do.

Libra is still a problem. They start with a basket of USD + Yen + EURs to start. This appeases governments, just for the reason you mention "based on their currences".

...but Libra is designs that they can move away from them over time. It can move to revenue generating investments, like corporate bonds (like money markets do).

Libra can then wait until closer to countries defaulting on their national debt. The countries then start money printing at far higher rates. Their currencies drop in value (aka far higher inflation rates). Libra then shifts to corporate bonds and revenue generating assets.

This is good for citizens. It moves Libra from unsound money (USD + Yen + EURs) to sound money (asset backed & revenue generating assets). That makes Libra more powerful than bitcoin.

This becomes a strategic problem because it can cause a RUN on the national fiat currency, as Libra flees it. Libra then is infitely better than national's fiat currency, because Libra is asset backed. The US Dollar has about $0.03 worth of gold backing per $1.00 (after all of the money printing).

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by ClumsyPilot on Saturday September 14, 2019 @09:57PM (#20975095)
I would much rather have world using bitcoin than a global currency controlled by private cartel.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by erikpukinskis on Sunday September 15, 2019 @03:02PM (#20978891)
Yes, Bitcoin is relatively speaking a pure idea. It competes in the realm of other pure ideas. At least, if we are unmooring ourselves from national identity it is a clean break with new dangers and new opportunities.

Libra is an idea AND a political entity, which feels like some mixture of status quo and new world which makes me uncomfortable.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by bobthepanda on Saturday September 14, 2019 @01:00PM (#20972121)
What would the assets generate revenue based on? If it‘s fiat currencies you still have exposure, if it‘s Libra you run the risk of currency panic and it‘s not dissimilar to a fiat currency panic except there‘s nothing really available to stop precipitous economic effects.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by HashThis on Saturday September 14, 2019 @04:22PM (#20973511)
Right now, they don't generate revenue when the basket is only: USD + Yen + Euros.

But it is designed so they can switch those out for Gov bonds, corporate bonds, real estate (REITs), etc.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by bobthepanda on Saturday September 14, 2019 @08:02PM (#20974652)
Gov bonds, corporate bonds, REITs, that today all pay USD, or Yen, or Euros, or what have you. So still based on fiat. Except this revenue basket just looks like an opaque, complex security, and we saw how well that turned out during the last financial crisis.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by kazen44 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @11:17AM (#20971302)
i don't think the goverments are foolish in this regards.

What are the advantages of libra compared to a normal bank transfer inside the bank union? Almost all positive aspects of libra already exists in the eurozone thanks to SEPA.

From an american perspective libra seems like an improvement, but the US is decades behind compared to the rest of the world when it comes to banking.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by pjc50 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @11:04AM (#20971221)
> a private military company asserting their right to conduct foreign wars in the name of a subset of citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi (formerly known as Blackwater)?

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by parsimo2010 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @11:41AM (#20971503)
Pretty much everything Academi/Xe/Blackwater ever did was at the behest of the US government. GP was talking about a scenario such as Apple hiring Academi to destroy Samsung's factories.

So far we have private companies providing security/defensive services, but we have yet to see private companies providing mercenary/offensive services without the explicit involvement of a government.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by moogly on Saturday September 14, 2019 @01:59PM (#20972549)
Pinkerton?
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by azernik on Saturday September 14, 2019 @07:45PM (#20974577)
The Pinkertons are considered the epitome of the "Wild West" - that is, the total lack of state control of law and order in the American West. Their intervention in strikes in the East is, to put it mildly, not a good example of law and order and a functioning state.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by isostatic on Saturday September 14, 2019 @12:52PM (#20972043)
> but we have yet to see private companies providing mercenary/offensive services without the explicit involvement of a government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by parsimo2010 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @01:18PM (#20972275)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company#Regulating_...

The British empire was explicitly on board with the East India Company, and passed laws clarifying what they were allowed to do.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by falcor84 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @01:22PM (#20972303)
The date it was founded (31 December 1600) is the date it received a Royal Charter from Queen Elizabeth I.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by tomatotomato37 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @11:33AM (#20971435)
There is a reason that company isn't based in Europe.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by Barrin92 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @12:25PM (#20971820)
You think Blackwater would fly in Germany or France?
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by atemerev on Saturday September 14, 2019 @12:54PM (#20972077)
Germany: Asgaard Security Group

France: Wagram Protection, Secopex, and many others.

PMCs are everywhere.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by Barrin92 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:38PM (#20973217)
the last time I heard something about asgaard was years ago but as far as I know they're almost exclusively in personal security.

It's true that on the fringes there are private intelligence companies but the way the US has used PMC's, which at some point outnumbered american soldiers in the middle east, is a privatization of war not really thinkable in europe.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by atemerev on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:59PM (#20973332)
If the UK is part of Europe, there are Aegis, Erinys, Control Risks, STEPP, and many others. In France, there are Æneas, Anticip, Corpguard, Défense Conseil International (linked to French government), GEOS, KB (they specialise in private arms trading), etc.