News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by bootlooped on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:19PM (#20947153)
I think you could teach decent, but not stellar, CS in 9 months. Most of the crap I had to take in college was not related at all to CS, or only conditionally or infreqently related. Calc 2? Wonder when I'll need to pull that out again, probably never. Western Civ? Totally irrelevant, even if it was interesting and enjoyable and made me a "more well rounded" student. There's a lot of fat to cut out of traditional CS programs at traditional colleges.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by jackpirate on Thursday September 12, 2019 @12:14AM (#20947902)
Every CS topic requires math much more advanced than calc 2 to properly understand it. For example:

* Machine learning is nothing but multivariate calculus.

* Analyzing network traffic is all queueing theory which is based on calculus.

* Even the simple data structures proof that no comparison-based sorting algorithm can run faster than n log n requires calculus.

Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by hellisothers on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:26AM (#20948300)
But the vast vast majority of programming jobs don’t and will not require this type of knowledge. Yes it’s useful in some very important career paths but not the average.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by robocat on Thursday September 12, 2019 @03:17AM (#20948852)
And yet you see plenty of graphics programmers learning advanced 3D shit without a CS degree.

And all those older programmers doing machine learning when they haven't had any CS courses on the topic.

Obviously a degree helps, but it doesn't stop someone suitably motivated and capable.

Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by devoply on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:39AM (#20948369)
You can do quite a bit without understanding it properly. As tons of cool kids have shown none of that shit actually matters if you are trying to create the next big thing that's going to make billions.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by AstralStorm on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:32AM (#20948331)
Missed statistics on the second bit. It's not just calculus though statistics use it.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by learc83 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:28PM (#20947219)
Calc 2 usually covers sequences and series. That's very relevant to CS.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by bootlooped on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @11:13PM (#20947548)
I can't think of any time it has helped me. I have never needed nor benefited from that effort, time and money.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by learc83 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @11:19AM (#20952448)
We have vastly different experiences then.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by austenallred on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:30PM (#20947240)
You could also learn sequences and series outside of Calc 2 in a fraction of the time
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by learc83 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:40PM (#20947308)
Probably--assuming you already have the prerequisite knowledge required. But will you? Probably not.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by austenallred on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:41PM (#20947316)
What prerequisites would you need? Notation and arithmetic?
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by learc83 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:42PM (#20947328)
Have you ever tutored or taught a Calc 2 class?
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by conductr on Thursday September 12, 2019 @12:10AM (#20947883)
Have you ever taught yourself something complicated? Books can be read and comprehend and applied without paying tuition and yes sometimes you will find you need to read another book first before continuing. There are plenty of people who can do this just fine, maybe you have a different learning style but don’t assert that on everyone else.
Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by username90 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @03:30AM (#20948927)
Reading a book and thinking you understand the material is not the same thing as understanding the material. If you randomly pick a bunch of people who claim to have self taught college level mathematics and gave them the corresponding MIT exams I bet most of them would fail. If it is a higher level course I'd bet not a single one of them would pass since the things they misunderstood compounds as they get deeper down into abstractions.

Of course it is possible, a few people throughout history have done it, but it is rare enough that I would claim that anyone who thinks they did are deluding themselves unless they can come up with further proof.

Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by conductr on Thursday September 12, 2019 @10:13AM (#20951642)
> “read and comprehend and applied“

To quote my prior comment, this basically says it takes more than reading. But reading is the root of it. These days “reading” encompasses everything from books, internet, and even YouTube style videos. Basically individual leaning content.

It’s very possible if you’re motivated and put in the time. College is forced motivation.

Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by username90 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @10:43AM (#20952011)
You can't apply maths as a test for it, you need someone who can tell you when you are wrong. It is not easy like a program crashing or an api returning an error, all errors when doing maths are entirely silent.

Lets take an example from the subject at hand, series in calculus: we want to prove that the sum of a series converges, how to you verify the proof without an instructor? Check that it is the same as the book? Most likely it wont be the same, proofs can come in many different ways. So either students start discarding their correct solutions thinking they are wrong or they fail to discard wrong solutions. Either case they fail to fully grasp the material.

You need to be a genius to properly root out all the errors in your head on your own, doesn't matter how many videos or books or tutorials you go through they can't evaluate your creative solutions like a real person can. Of course the need for instructors mostly disappear as you reach mathematical maturity, but to get there without help is extremely hard.

Re:What happens to tech workers when their skills become obs... by vonseel on Thursday September 12, 2019 @03:31PM (#20955425)
If you randomly pick a group of students who passed these exams more than 1, 3, and 5+ years ago, I bet nearly all of them would fail.

Why? Because learning to take tests and learning are two different things. And nothing is permanently learned. Except maybe how to ride a bike.