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Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by remotecool on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:10PM (#20906181)
They are only investigating this company because they don't like the government cracking down on protestors in HK.

Tear gas is better than bullets.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by oro92 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:24PM (#20906273)
Journalists investigating current events? Huh.

Next you’ll be telling me scientists only investigate results of experiments!

Police only investigate results of crimes!

What’s next? Washing laundry after it’s dirty?

Where will it end!!

[dead]
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by mortenjorck on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:53PM (#20906450)
> You call buzzfeed journalists?

This comes up every time with a Buzzfeed News investigative piece. Honestly, I don’t know why they kept the name when they launched their actual journalism org; it’s kind of like starting a legitimate, old-school blood testing laboratory under the Theranos name.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by comicjk on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:48PM (#20906767)
I said this to a blue-check journalist (Max Rosenthal) on Twitter, and he mocked me for it. But I still think it's true. The name BuzzFeed is just not helpful.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by tgsovlerkhgsel on Saturday September 07, 2019 @07:58PM (#20907536)
Ironically, at this point, I associate Buzzfeed more with their reputable, high quality journalism than their clickbait.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by sergiomattei on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:44PM (#20906407)
Before you dismiss their reporting...

BuzzFeed News is a new branch of the company, with its own autonomy from the whole thing.

They have Pulitzer-winning staff in there, and their investigative reporting is actually quite good.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by GordonS on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:36PM (#20907105)
I agree, but WTF did they keep the name "BuzFeed", which has such a poor standing?
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by ch_123 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:32PM (#20906335)
By that logic, all current affairs investigations must be politically motivated.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by freyr on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:56PM (#20906465)
Buzzfeed and Buzzfeed News are not one in the same, and Buzzfeed News does do real journalism. See, for example, this series of articles on Vladimir Putin's ties to a killing campaign on British and American soil:

https://www.pulitzer.org/finalists/staff-buzzfeed-news

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by mikeash on Saturday September 07, 2019 @07:17PM (#20907330)
Bullets are better than hauling everyone off to secret prisons where they are tortured to death over months. So I guess bullets are cool!
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by senthil_rajasek on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:19PM (#20906239)
No tear gas is best.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by meshr on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:31PM (#20907064)
The best is not to use and provoke violence at all.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by newguy1234 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @08:43PM (#20907753)
Violence is justified when you are under an oppressive government. See american revolution and similar violent uprisings. That's the reality. The whole non-violent activism only works when your government isn't oppressive and can actually be reformed through non-violent movements.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by meshr on Sunday September 08, 2019 @11:45AM (#20911207)
I agree violence is justified when someone violates rules. China did violate ‘Article 5 of the Basic Law’ before 2047. So it is global problem that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. Or is USA trade war kind of punishment for China?
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by PavlovsCat on Sunday September 08, 2019 @09:08PM (#20914403)
HKPF throwing tear gas at journalists with no protesters even around:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1b4kg/hong_kong_...

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by anigbrowl on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:55PM (#20907205)
What should people do if they form a consensus that they are being oppressed and asking politely fails to yield the desired result?
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by meshr on Sunday September 08, 2019 @11:45AM (#20911212)
They should grow first as much as possible before considering to fight with much bigger enemy so that the winner would be unknown. To do so they should define a problem as time-space independent one. It is global problem here that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. We need worldwide consensus here what everyone should do in this case before he hits the same problem.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by wbronitsky on Saturday September 07, 2019 @07:19PM (#20907340)
Is your argument that the solution to violence is no violence? I believe that assertion is self evidently useless and harmful to the discussion. We would do a lot better to try and raise the tenor of the conversation by discussing interesting viewpoints, not asserting that the solution to something is to simply stop doing it
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by meshr on Sunday September 08, 2019 @11:48AM (#20911227)
My answer to violence is to be smarter. It is global problem here that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. We need worldwide consensus here what everyone should do in this case before he hits the same problem.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by wbronitsky on Sunday September 08, 2019 @05:46PM (#20913643)
These blanket statements about “violence” are mostly devoid of meaning. What are we defining as violence in this context such that someone could be “smarter” to avoid it? Is the suggestion that someone getting assaulted should be “smarter” to solve their problem? What about protesters that are being attacked by the police? What about a country that is being invaded? I don’t understand how intelligence can fix “violence” or what “violence” even is in this context.

Moreover, asserting that we need “world wide consensus” strikes me as an incredibly naïve point. Is there anything that everyone agrees on? Are we stuck with violence until everyone agrees? Grand statements about getting along don’t seem to chip away at the problem at all. In fact, I would assert that they are fiercely counterproductive; one can say we all need to get along and until then we have no culpability.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by meshr on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:39PM (#20954162)
What I mean is to fight back with your brain but not with your body. Someone getting assaulted should be “smarter” to not fight back physically with much bigger opponent. You should look how Edward Snowden or Julian Assange fight back.

“world wide consensus” means to create big enough entity who is ready to act when law is violated anywhere in the world so that its actions can hurt violator. Imagine the world where open-source is replaced by such entity.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by PavlovsCat on Saturday September 07, 2019 @08:05PM (#20907578)
How does one get from these

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10k4e/dont_let_t...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cv9y4c/protesters...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medic...

to these

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_mor...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0re3y/police_doi...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cxz64b/300_uncut_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0yl4g/police_dep...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10ewo/8_seconds_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cp0gb2/hk_police_...

https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/c04o32/french_journa...

? Now consider that's just the tip of the iceberg, the result of a few minutes of searching and scrolling. I know there's instances of protesters being violent, but it's

a.) not possible for 30% of a city to be on the streets at the same time, without even more supporting them, and it's not possible for all these brave, peaceful, beautiful people to be singing songs like they do, for a protest that's just instigated by a bunch of hooligans or Western intelligence agencies, or however the attempts to smear them go.

b.) not possible to explain most of the police brutality by any action on behalf of the protesters. Which some police apparently call "cockroaches", instances of that being caught on video, too.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by seamyb88 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:20PM (#20906244)
Yeah, leave the labour extorting weapons manufacturer alone, guys!
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by remotecool on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:25PM (#20906282)
The workers are paid over minimum wage.

Working conditions might suck, but why is this any different than any small company with poor working conditions?

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by Pfhreak on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:35PM (#20906355)
> why is this any different than any small company with poor working conditions?

Because what they manufacture is a weapon that's being exported and used against civilian protesters?

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by mieseratte on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:47PM (#20906418)
Couldn’t the HK police buy it from somewhere else? Or domestically produce?
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by sterileopinions on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:50PM (#20906433)
If so, that doesn't excuse American citizens profiting off the suppression of civilians in other countries.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by mieseratte on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:01PM (#20906491)
> If so, that doesn't excuse American citizens profiting off the suppression of civilians in other countries.

If the product can be trivially sourced elsewhere, what's the point? Do you believe it might hurt their image and sales elsewhere? Or is this just a moral line you hold dear?

[dead]
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by mieseratte on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:13PM (#20906550)
Well, that's your opinion to hold, but I'm a bit more realpolitik about things. Unless withholding the materials are likely to damage police operational capability, it's an empty feel-good gesture.

> That's kind of a really idiotic stance to take.

I would kindly ask you drop the ad hominems.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by sterileopinions on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:17PM (#20906573)
There is nothing practical about your stance though, so you can't really call it realpolitik. You are being overly charitable about how you've arrived at your position.

>it's an empty feel-good gesture.

Not really, by not continuing trade you lend less credence to the actions of the government.

You think you're being intelligent about what's happening here but it's really just a case of you not understanding how actions are perceived by other organizations.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by mieseratte on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:33PM (#20906665)
> There is nothing practical about your stance though, so you can't really call it realpolitik.

What isn't practical about it exactly? It is a decision with consequences with unclear benefit, predicated upon a moral stance.

> You are being overly charitable about how you've arrived at your position.

Well, my initial comment started off with a question prompting your moral hardline stance, so I'm making a bit of an assumption. I've also tried to take care to preface my stance with it's applicability as relates to pragmatism. Should it turn out the firm is the only possible firm that could supply the product, I would feel very strongly they should withhold sale based on my personal beliefs.

It also bears pointing out charitable interpretation is not only a rule of this site but a great principle in discourse.

> Not really, by not continuing trade you lend less credence to the actions of the government.

Of which government? The Chinese or the US? If the latter, it isn't as if we have a long history of fair treatment of foreign nations as relates to commerce. Belief that this is some kind of abberation is rather naive. The government sells lethal arms to conflict zones and dictators with little issue.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by anigbrowl on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:57PM (#20907213)
it's an empty feel-good gesture.

I would kindly ask you drop the ad hominems.

Physician, heal thyself.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by artificial on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:17PM (#20906574)
Do you only buy products from company’s where your politics align? For example, no Chinese products because that supports a communist regime? Not using Google because they actively suppress information in China?
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by sterileopinions on Saturday September 07, 2019 @05:27PM (#20906633)
If you're going to make a comparison you should do so where there is both power and information parity with the entity in question.

Not only am I not a commercial entity engaging in trade with these organizations, but it is technically impossible for me as a singular individual with no over all commercial power to engage in commerce in any form without involving Chinese products. And there are plenty of cases where people unknowingly do this despite their best efforts.

I can tell you this though: I'm not the commercial entity making a conscious and forthright decision to do it. And the products I interact with are not designed with the express purpose and utility of crowd control, however right or wrong.

The question you're proposing isn't equivalent to what's being discussed and is kind of just silly.

Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by anigbrowl on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:56PM (#20907211)
Yes, but every little thing that increases their costs in time or money slightly reduces their symmetrical advantage.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by praptak on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:32PM (#20907071)
What does this change? "Someone else would do it anyway" has never been a valid excuse for doing shitty things.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by danharaj on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:28PM (#20906306)
Workers of the world unite!
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by edoceo on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:27PM (#20907032)
Seize the means of production!
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by seamyb88 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @06:35PM (#20907095)
The only thing the working classes have to lose are their shackles.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by inflatableDodo on Saturday September 07, 2019 @09:39PM (#20908008)
You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
Re:An American Father and Son Exporting Tear Gas to Hong Kong by pjc50 on Saturday September 07, 2019 @04:35PM (#20906357)
Yes? That's how news works, finding a local angle on a foreign story?