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Re:Hiring Is Broken? by neilv on Saturday August 31, 2019 @02:30PM (#20847999)
I asked a recruiter there whether someone like that (like the creator of a popular programming language) would have to go through the normal new-grad-style whiteboard coding hazing gauntlet (phrased diplomatically) interview process that they were expecting me to. The recruiter said no. I decided not to interview, because it turns out the hazing wasn't something "everyone" had to do, and I just didn't rate decent treatment.

The next time a recruiter from there cold-contacted me, I asked again. IIRC, that one said a person could skip at most only the first part of the whiteboard coding hazing (phrased differently), if someone at Google could vouch for them, but that everyone had to do the second part of the hazing, before they could advance to the interviewing phase of professionals with mutual respect (phrased differently). I decided not to interview.

So long as their process comes off as one-sided, arrogant, and negging, the company doesn't seem like a place I'd want to work.

It's like you're meeting a first date in the line at a cafe, and they're physically attractive and rich, but they're rude to the barista -- bullet dodged, we're not together, and I'd like my coffee to-go, please.

Re:Hiring Is Broken? by 0x445442 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @03:30PM (#20848338)
At this point in my career I won’t do coding tests or problems at home or over the phone. I’ve done my fair share of hiring and I’ve never needed to resort to such things.

Being asked to perform these tasks is actually a pretty good litmus test to filter out companies. Also, I expect a certain degree of deference given my resume shows a 25 year history of implementing and delivering systems.

Re:Hiring Is Broken? by dahart on Saturday August 31, 2019 @06:48PM (#20849297)
I have about the same amount of professional experience, and have done lots of hiring and leading of teams. A few years ago I took a job that interviewed me with a coding test. (Which was only one of many phases of the interview). The coding test was quite fun, the company allowed the test in the language of my choice, and it was mostly about implementing rules for a game, and for bonus points, some A.I. to play the game. Not very long after taking the job, I was doing the interviewing and administering the coding tests to interviewees.

There were applicants with a decade or more of experience who, like you, expected some deference and were annoyed or offended, and complained about having to take a coding test. But they were applying for programming roles, not management. Those people didn’t get hired; negative attitudes are a red flag. In effect, this particular company likewise used them as a litmus test to filter out applicants unwilling (or unable) to demonstrate their advertised abilities.

Note especially how the coding test is actually being used to evaluate attitude and things other than coding skill. It’s not valid to assume that being asked to do a coding test implies that someone doesn’t believe you about your experience.

That said, resumes are very easy to fluff up with big sounding projects, so talking through past project details and demonstrating your abilities with a coding test should be par for the course if you want to change companies.

I actually agree and I don’t think coding projects are necessary for hiring, but I do think they’re useful, not bad, and I don’t give deference to anyone when I’m interviewing, no matter how accomplished. I look for people who are smart, willing to learn, excited to do the job, excited to interview for my company, and willing to try.

Re:Hiring Is Broken? by neilv on Sunday September 01, 2019 @09:08AM (#20852082)
I don't expect deference. I expect an experienced developer to be able to tell -- from talking with me, and from looking at open source work, and from asking my references -- that we are peers.

I'm happy to have real technical discussions and sketch out things, but I've seen enough negging "coding interviews" administered by smug people, and it seems to have little-to-nothing to do with legitimately assessing competence.

I'd also like to have an opportunity to get a sense of the people from talking with them. The FAANG coding theatre performance that undergrads now drill for doesn't tell me much about the team's personality, competence, and working style -- all it tells me is that apparently they are willing to play along with that dysfunctional one-sided game.

Re:Hiring Is Broken? by thoman23 on Saturday August 31, 2019 @09:49PM (#20850042)
How much hiring and interviewing have you done? I've seen countless resumes with 25 years of stated glorious achievements, and they couldn't write a for loop.
Re:Hiring Is Broken? by 0x445442 on Sunday September 01, 2019 @11:21AM (#20852734)
I've done quite a bit and have never had any difficulty sniffing out "gloss" with just a few minutes of questions over the phone using the applicant's resume as a starting point for the conversation.

When you're focused on system implementation, delivery and maintenance you can pick one of the past projects listed and start probing. It's not hard to quickly get a picture of what the candidate did and didn't do on the project and whether or not they're blowing smoke.

Re:Hiring Is Broken? by neilv on Friday September 06, 2019 @02:58PM (#20898697)
Exactly. Of course, we do have to be a bit careful how we ask about past projects, to avoid the appearance of being exposed to IP, but it's doable. We can also just talk about hypothetical design problems (and they can learn about us based on the questions we ask, even if we're not doing a collaborative exercise). But no whiteboard CS101 coding negging.