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Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by alanh on Saturday January 08, 2011 @03:11PM (#2083834)
Darwin?

How is it stealing if it's open source, and the end result is the best desktop OS ever created? Sheesh

And Apple's work on open source Clang/LLVM and WebKit has been quite significant has it not?

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by sedachv on Saturday January 08, 2011 @05:18PM (#2084118)
"Open source" is a misleading term, please stop using it: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.h...

As pointed out in other replies, Apple is working on clang because it doesn't want to deal with the GPL (unless you own Apple stock, you're the one losing because of this decision), and WebKit because it's derived from LGPL code.

How much work is Apple putting into making Darwin a usable Free Software OS? Versus how much work have Red Hat, Canonical, Novell, IBM etc. have put into making Linux available in a number of different, free distributions? The reason all has to do with GPL and copyleft. There is very little incentive for companies to invest in BSD code, and no disincentive for them to steal it. If Linux wasn't GPLed, it wouldn't be where it is today.

There's nothing wrong with what Apple is doing. However, if you think that somehow Apple releasing some of their code under the BSD justifies restricting their end-users to their locked-in App Store and their fight against the GPL, there is something morally off with your thinking.

Claiming that this makes the BSD a better choice than the GPL shows that you don't understand that Apple doesn't care about you and your open source; they'll take whatever is convenient. You're the one losing out, and you're justifying it to yourself as a good thing.

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by tbrownaw on Saturday January 08, 2011 @07:54PM (#2084432)
> "Open source" is a misleading term, please stop using it

It's less confusing/misleading than free-as-in-beer vs free-as-in-speech vs free-as-in-dammit-you-cant-do-that-tivo.

> Apple is working on clang because it doesn't want to deal with the GPL (unless you own Apple stock, you're the one losing because of this decision)

Have you seen the sh##t g++ provides for error messages? clang++ is a massive improvement.

> There is very little incentive for companies to invest in BSD code, and no disincentive for them to steal it.

Which is of course why http://www.postgresql.org/community/contributors/ only includes people working out of their mothers' basements, why http://www.sqlite.org/index.html doesn't show any corporate sponsors, and why BSD died years ago...

> If Linux wasn't GPLed, it wouldn't be where it is today.

Yeah, I think the original license had something about "no commercial use" in it.

> think that somehow Apple releasing some of their code under the BSD justifies restricting their end-users to their locked-in App Store

I don't see how there's any relation between those?

> shows that you don't understand that Apple doesn't care about you and your open source; they'll take whatever is convenient

"Caring" is an emotion, which organizations don't seem to have.

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by dgreensp on Saturday January 08, 2011 @06:42PM (#2084287)
For many individual developers and most companies, a permissive free software license like BSD may be a better choice than a restrictive one like GPL.

Companies like Google are releasing all sorts of code under BSD on the off chance it gets used, or maybe even improved, or maybe even becomes some sort of de facto standard. Releasing the code under GPL would mostly disincentivize these behaviors.

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by sedachv on Sunday January 09, 2011 @04:32PM (#2086477)
The point I'm trying to make is that you have to understand the trade-offs. Saying GPL automatically makes it harder for others to use your code is wrong. It depends on what you want and don't want to happen. This also completely ignores the LGPL. Many projects licensed under BSD would benefit from being re-licensed under the LGPL.

There's also no reason why you can't dual-license a product, or license different parts of the same codebase under different licenses (for example, I release the unit test files in my Free Software projects into the public domain).

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by alain94040 on Saturday January 08, 2011 @05:47PM (#2084170)
Apple will take whatever is convenient. You're the one losing out

I know it's a strawman argument, but if you feel superior to Apple, how come you didn't come up with the iPhone innovation? Saying Apple doesn't care about me when they obsess about designing amazing products that blow away anything that existed before is a little big disingenuous.

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by gloob on Saturday January 08, 2011 @10:17PM (#2084715)
That's not a straw man. That's a non sequitur.
Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by buster on Saturday January 08, 2011 @06:05PM (#2084211)
Uhm.. How does it feel to be trapped in Job's Reality Distortion Bubble?
Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by alain94040 on Saturday January 08, 2011 @11:11PM (#2084778)
In your reality, do all smartphones have touch interfaces? That's pretty much the definition of a revolution: when you can clearly point to a before and an after.
Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by buster on Sunday January 09, 2011 @03:07AM (#2085129)
In my reality touch interfaces exist for decades and smartphones had touch screens for years before your "revolution".
Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by morphir on Saturday January 08, 2011 @03:56PM (#2083935)
it has. But I think its important to point out that freebsd and the bsd-stack is not in any way in competition with osx. Apple develops products, and earns money by creating products that average joe can operate with ease. This means that Apple is able to commoditize off open source, by taking and contributing back to their projects of interest. Free Software Foundation have their understanding of what freedom is. Unfortunately the fight for freedom has resulted in a rather complicated GPL v3 opposed to BSD-licenses which demand that your respect copyright and by that restricts you less than the GPLish licenses. It's ironic, but BSD offers more freedom than GPL. Also, it's a shame that VLC - being the most kick-ass videoplayer today - is hindered by legal issues.

As a funny sidenote, one could say that if you choose GPL you need to consult your legal-department. But if you choose BSD you don't even need a legal-department.

Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by ajross on Saturday January 08, 2011 @04:31PM (#2084018)
WebKit is a descendant of KHTML, and thus LGPL by requirement. I have a hard time believing Apple would have ever opened this technology had they developed it internally.
Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by alextgordon on Saturday January 08, 2011 @06:46PM (#2084294)
That seems a little unfair and speculative. Maybe they would have, maybe they wouldn't've. All we can say for sure is they did.
Re:No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store by protomyth on Saturday January 08, 2011 @09:04PM (#2084581)
Clang? OpenCL? I think there are counter examples.