News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years by roenxi on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @11:58AM (#20821028)
But the ethical base-case is potentially that none of those cows, pigs, chickens or turkeys are ever born. Case by case we couldn't say, but statistically a lot of farm animals are going to be reliant on human logistics, organisation and protection to survive in the numbers that they do.

So the question might reasonably be 'are the conditions these animals face worse than never existing?'.

Re:Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years by Vinnl on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @12:05PM (#20821072)
For a lot of them, the answer is most certainly yes, and if humans were in their positions, they'd say so too.
Re:Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years by detcader on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @10:04PM (#20826022)
Then I think the natural follow-up experiment would be to imagine if a dog you know was born for dogfighting, and that you can be sure it will never escape. Would we rather it just not be born? If not, we just need to argue that being bred to dogfight is preferable to, or on-par with, being bred to be trapped in a cage and eaten.
Re:Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years by Iv on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @11:35PM (#20826438)
I never understood that logic. I don't see why more animals (or humans) existing ought to be considered a good thing?
Re:Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years by roenxi on Thursday August 29, 2019 @02:38AM (#20827222)
That isn't the core of the argument; the point is that there is no good outcome for most of those animals. The choice is exist, live and be slaughtered for food vs. never being born.

Not an enviable choice, but it confounds some of the simple ethical arguments for, eg, vegetarianism.

Re:Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years by Iv on Friday August 30, 2019 @05:25AM (#20837026)
But I don't understand how it is relevant to what we should do?

Our goal is to minimize the amount of suffering we are responsible of. In that respect it is obviously better to not breed animals than to breed them and make them suffer.