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Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by sterlind on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:37AM (#20808067)
Gender studies did indeed start out this way, dismissive of notions of "biological sex," until the case of David Reimer threw a bucket of cold water on those second-wave feminist theories. David was the victim of a botched circumcision as an infant. His doctors decided to turn an outie into an innie, constructed a vagina, and told his parents to raise him as a woman. He was given "vitamin" pills (actually estrogen) and forcibly socialized as female, but it didn't take. He identified as male throughout his life, transitioned as an adult, eventually discovered the truth his parents were hiding and finally killed himself.

This was an early factor in third-wave feminism accepting gender identity, which is why almost all millenial and gen-Z feminists accept trans and intersex people and why TERFs tend to be older (or deceased, good riddance Janice Raymond.)

I've found that the left tends to distrust science that may contradict its ideology, and the right tends to distrust experiences too alien from their own. In Reimer's case, the science had a human tragedy at the center of it which bridged the gap and led to change.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by not_a_terf on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @07:04AM (#20808232)
Wouldn't the Reimer story support a naive version of biological sex moreso than an acceptance of gender identity?
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by danharaj on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @10:01AM (#20809636)
It supports believing people about what their gender identity is instead of imposing it on them.

The rate of attempted suicide in transgender people is over 40% if they are not socially supported. That rate drops to general population levels in trans people who have familial and community support when transitioning.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by jtbayly on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:16PM (#20811296)
There is almost no scientific evidence for the idea that complete support will prevent adverse outcomes for this group.

Long-term the evidence is the opposite. Claiming that the difference between long and short-term outcomes is explained by the difference between support levels is not science. It is guessing.

"One hypothesis, the social stress model—which posits that stigma, prejudice, and discrimination are the primary causes of higher rates of poor mental health outcomes for these subpopulations—is frequently cited as a way to explain this disparity. While non-heterosexual and transgender individu- als are often subject to social stressors and discrimination, science has not shown that these factors alone account for the entirety, or even a major- ity, of the health disparity between non-heterosexual and transgender subpopulations and the general population. There is a need for extensive research in this area to test the social stress hypothesis and other poten- tial explanations for the health disparities, and to help identify ways of addressing the health concerns present in these subpopulations." https://www.thenewatlantis.com/docLib/20160819_TNA50Sexualit...

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by Digory on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @02:25PM (#20812901)
Link? The 41% figure is usually the Williams survey[0] in 2014, which doesn't exactly say that.

[0] http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFS...

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by merpnderp on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @10:38AM (#20810007)
Interesting stats, do you have a citation on the suicide rates?
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by detcader on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @10:59AM (#20810249)
Celebrating the death of a feminist woman because you disagreed with her politically is probably the best way to get people to trust you, produce helpful discourse and not fall in line with whoever makes their argument most aggressively
Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by danharaj on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:58AM (#20809620)
> and forcibly socialized as female, but it didn't take.

Reimer's socialization was a lot more traumatic than being told he was female. The wikipedia article only touches the surface of the disturbing abuse he was subjected to.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by xkapastel on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @11:41AM (#20810816)
> This was an early factor in third-wave feminism accepting gender identity, which is why almost all millenial and gen-Z feminists accept trans and intersex people and why TERFs tend to be older

I don't see why this story would lead anyone to accept gender identity.

I also think there are many millenials and gen-Z's who would be classified as "TERFs", and in fact would view the term as derogatory.

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by detcader on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @03:35PM (#20813620)
It's a term that people have started scrawling on women's shelters [1]. I am unconvinced it is a purely "descriptive" thing...

[1] https://www.facebook.com/252414605231327/posts/7186233552771...

*Edited to be less snarky

Re:The Provocations of Camille Paglia by not_a_terf on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @01:54PM (#20812566)
> or deceased, good riddance Janice Raymond

Did Janice Raymond pass away? Did you mean Mary Daly?