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Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by alkonaut on Monday August 26, 2019 @07:25AM (#20798898)
Even with the maintenance of the gas lines? Unless you use gas for something else (e.g. heating) then you have an opportunity to stop paying expensive gas line maintenance costs and use that money to buy more expensive electricity.

That's what's happening in some city centers in Europe as fewer and fewer residents use gas, those that do need to share the maintenance costs for the gas network, which makes it more and more expensive to keep using it so there is a spiral of people leaving. In stockholm it's now north of $200/year for a studio apartment even before buying any gas. You get quite a bit of cooking electricity for $200!

Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by nervousvarun on Monday August 26, 2019 @07:28AM (#20798912)
Good point, I'm sure the gas line maintenance is passed through the monthly bill.

Typically though gas is used in the U.S. for more than cooking (stoves): heating water. More and more people are shifting to on-demand tankless heaters but even with those the perception is gas is better than electric.

Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by adventured on Monday August 26, 2019 @07:35AM (#20798948)
My home is heated with natural gas. The kitchen stove is also natural gas. In the post fracking era, it has been quite inexpensive. Natural gas is knocking on 20 year lows right now. There is a few dollar charge per month, regardless of use, for the connection.
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by swebs on Monday August 26, 2019 @07:45AM (#20798990)
Yes. It makes a world of difference that Pennsylvania is one of the largest gas production regions in the world, and can supply the population-dense northeast corridor. In Sweden, you have to pipe gas in all the way from Russia.
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by mamon on Monday August 26, 2019 @10:06AM (#20799945)
Seriously, Russia? Norway is much closer, and has cheaper gas. Is there some animosity between your countries that I don't know about?
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by swebs on Monday August 26, 2019 @10:27AM (#20800116)
My mistake, I thought the Nord Stream serviced Sweden.
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by Conan_Kudo on Monday August 26, 2019 @07:29AM (#20798915)
A home with natural gas stoves often has natural gas for heating too. Usually the latter is what enables the former, because there's no incentive if you're already using electric heating.
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by cpwright on Monday August 26, 2019 @09:22AM (#20799638)
In our area (NY, north of the city) if you can't get natural gas, you heat with oil not electric. Plenty of people also get propane just for the gas stove. The yearly propane tank rental is about $100, since you'll never meet the minimums for a free tank with just a stove.
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by alkonaut on Monday August 26, 2019 @09:46AM (#20799822)
> if you can't get natural gas, you heat with oil not electric.

Is this the case for new construction too? Why aren't heat pumps used these days?

Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by Majromax on Monday August 26, 2019 @12:18PM (#20801055)
> Why aren't heat pumps used these days?

They lose efficiency in very cold conditions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_source_heat_pumps#In_cold_...). Albany, New York (https://www.weather.gov/aly/SpecialDataALB) has an official all-time record low of -28F (-33C), which is well below the point where air-source heat pumps have any meaningful efficiency advantage over even resistive heating.

Heat-pump solutions that use the ground as their heatsink are much more expensive because of the excavation required.

Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by AnssiH on Monday August 26, 2019 @01:55PM (#20802115)
Majority of new single homes in Finland have used geothermal heat pumps for the last ~5 years now (source e.g. https://www.energiatehokaskoti.fi/suunnittelu/talotekniikan_...).
Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by alkonaut on Monday August 26, 2019 @02:11PM (#20802248)
Yes same in Sweden. I mean I’m sure upstate New York is equally freezing occasionally, but if heat pumps work in Northern Finland/Sweden one would think few places would be “too cold”.

What we do have in Sweden is cheap renewable electricity so choosing heat pump over oil/gas doesn’t just mean electric it means renewable over fossil too.

Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by kileywm on Monday August 26, 2019 @12:38PM (#20801243)
> Why aren't heat pumps used these days?

Heat pumps are likely not used in New York state because most of them cannot warm the house sufficiently during the coldest winter temperatures (0F or less).

Re:North American versus European distribution systems (2011) by fulafel on Monday August 26, 2019 @01:45PM (#20801993)
Air heat pumps are common in the Nordics with as cold, or coldet, climates. But ground heat pumps are better. (You want good insulation too obviously)