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Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by jodrellblank on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:45PM (#20788160)
it's amusing that you're so confident in its failure despite having the wrong information.

Why would that be "despite"? That would have to be being confident in its failure despite having information that it would be a success. Surely they're confident in its failure because the information they have says it will be bad?

And then your comment becomes "I'm laughing because you're confident in your beliefs" which is content-free smugness, or "I'm laughing at you because you don't know what I know" which is more or less the same, if not worse.

Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by apcragg on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:48PM (#20788177)
Being confident enough to trash-talk based on hearsay is just being arrogant.
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Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by apcragg on Saturday August 24, 2019 @01:05PM (#20788310)
I mean my sources are the actual 5G Standards, the test equipment I've used, and my knowledge of cellular systems stemming from experience and and formal education so yeah, I think it's a fair assumption that my knowledge is more than "some things I heard". My job does not depend on the success or failure of 5G, I don't know where you got that from.
Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by inimino on Saturday August 24, 2019 @02:08PM (#20788668)
Information is not equally likely to be valid regardless of the source it came from.

This is the curse of being an expert (on anything) and engaging with kooks who think they are experts because they read something on the internet.

If you had direct experiences and you share them, those shouldn't be ridiculed, but if you pass on information that is not from your direct experience and which people who have direct experience believe to be false... that's also, as you say, "not a good look".

Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by jodrellblank on Saturday August 24, 2019 @04:04PM (#20789383)
The point is not that information from all sources is equally valid, the point is the parent is dismissing information without knowing what the source even is. I don't know the original commenter, their knowledge, or their source. But as the replying person says "assumption that my knowledge is more" - that is an assumption. Why not check that assumption?

Then they go on to say "I mean my sources are the actual 5G Standards," - And it's never been the case that a standards document sounds great, but doesn't work well or is implemented badly? Or tries to address a problem but doesn't? "and on implementing electronics" - so not actual experience of trying it?

Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by inimino on Saturday August 24, 2019 @04:12PM (#20789431)
> dismissing information without knowing what the source even is

What someone says gives a very strong signal for where they heard it.

Yes, you could perhaps challenge the relevance of the standards here, but to do that, you would need to provide strong evidence.

Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by jodrellblank on Sunday August 25, 2019 @11:53AM (#20793603)
I don't follow what you're suggesting; Where are you implying that asciident heard that 5G is "trash technology" and "doesn't work well"?

"I heard someone used it and it didn't work well" is the same level of evidence as product reviews, and is strong enough for all of us to make day to day judgements on. "I read the spec and the spec says it should be good" is not strong evidence - all spec would say that, or be revised until it said that. Yet still bad products abound.

Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by inimino on Sunday August 25, 2019 @01:08PM (#20794052)
They picked up some random news articles and some hearsay. Maybe product reviews are where you get your info, then don't be surprised if you talk to actual engineers and they don't have a lot of respect for your opinions.
Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by jodrellblank on Monday August 26, 2019 @08:17AM (#20799173)
Is it not a common trope on HN itself, the software engineer who stridently argues that their service is good because it has $list-of-tech, ignoring the users who don’t like it?
Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by jodrellblank on Monday August 26, 2019 @02:51PM (#20802568)
I would edit, but too late; here is a HN recommendation thread about non-Macbook laptops: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20795113 In it, there are people saying that Intel - nVidia GPU switching has problems on some laptops.

If I take your position as stated: 1) Those claims, by the time they to us, are hearsay and therefore have no value. 2) An Intel engineer stating that they have more knowledge and it should work well, is not hearsay and does have value. 3) Whether the Intel engineer respects the reader or not, matters.

Am I misrepresenting anything in your position here? If not, then I feel the opposite about all three points. This isn't about engineer vs user's knowledge, it's about differences between design-intent and real-world result.

Re:Cities Are Saying ‘No’ to 5G, Citing Health, Aesthetics, ... by inimino on Monday August 26, 2019 @05:21PM (#20803908)
> Am I misrepresenting anything in your position here?

Yes.

1) I never said "no value". The claims have value. Call it 2 bits per claim, with diminishing returns after the first few.

2) The Intel engineer has considerably more context, and more on the line, so their claim has considerably more weight. Call it... 8 bits. If they say it should work, then it should work, and if other people say it doesn't work, that doesn't mean someone is wrong, it might just mean that it should work, but for someone it isn't working, for whatever other reasons.

3) If the Intel engineer tells you your opinion is wrong or out of date, you should probably give that considerably more weight than if some random person on the internet without that context says it.

The engineer working in the field can be expected to know a lot more about both the intended design, the actual build, and the real-world issues arising in practice compared to what any individual user would know about any of those things. This is generally why experts don't like to engage with non-experts; the non-experts' priors on who to trust are likely to be all out of whack.