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Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by taurath on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:31PM (#20779250)
Why shouldn’t employees of the company with the goal of organizing all the worlds information debate politics? Everything is political. Especially information.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by BurningFrog on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:33PM (#20779273)
Because they have work to do. That's why they're there.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by refurb on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:37PM (#20779331)
Exactly.

If I'm working on a team that is rolling out a new Google drive feature, I really don't need to hear you talk about why drinking straws are a phallic symbol and used by the patriarchy to keep woman down.

We have work to do.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by joshuamorton on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:08PM (#20782043)
It's very easy to decry literal straw man arguments. As a googler, I don't think I've seen much discussion of drinking straws at all, and certainly none about how they're phallic.

If you think any discussion of politics is that infantile, I don't think there's anything I can do or say to convince you otherwise, but for everyone else, just recognize that this example is ridiculous. And real, actual, conversations about political topics aren't anywhere near as asenine. They're about important things, that often are relevant to work: privacy, discrimination (inentional and non-, by both people and machines), and literal actual government policy that affects google and googlers: immigration, taxes, etc.

I'm not sure how you could avoid those topics and still be an effective employee, or in some cases still be an employee at all.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by rollinDyno on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:06PM (#20779764)
Everyone here is talking about what _should_ happen.

Yes, the workplace _should_ be serene and work _should_ proceed in harmony.

But there are other things that aren't proceeding the way people think _should_ be happening, which they deem to be far more important.

Which is why you're seeing more people willing to disrupt the workplace, which they consider a minor obligation relative to the bigger picture.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by weberc2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:15PM (#20779906)
Yup, and Google is letting those people know that there may now be consequences for their disruption. If those people still think their disruption worthwhile, they're free to proceed.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by rollinDyno on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:41PM (#20780246)
I think this is very telling, as a symptom of a diseased democracy.

People wouldn't take their fight to these environments if democracy was working, because they'd have faith in the due processes of government. But once they start thinking things aren't working, they'll go to their next seats of power. In this case it's the workplace where they can influence their coworkers and the policy of a big tech corporation.

These people are not a majority so democracy isn't fully broken yet, but the cracks are showing.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by weberc2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:31PM (#20783842)
A healthy democracy isn’t meant to prop up unpersuasive ideologies.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by gwbas1c on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:54PM (#20779582)
I wish your comment was top level, because most of the comments in this thread are snarky responses that don't understand how politics turned Google's workplace toxic.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by arcticbull on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:39PM (#20779348)
I'm sure the oppressed party in your example feels the polar opposite and don't want to hear your whining about how feminism doesn't matter in modern society because it's good enough as is. And I think that's the point :)
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by cameronbrown on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:45PM (#20779426)
I assume you're being sarcastic/exaggerating, but even so.

This is just a perfect example of how polarised politics is today. Society just needs to calm down and evaluate itself instead of bickering over nonsense.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by cbhl on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:25PM (#20780804)
I'm not sure I'd jump so quickly to dismiss the statements of either the parent or grandparent as an exaggeration.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by TheGRS on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:08PM (#20779802)
Yes, every meaningful change in society has come to light because everyone calmed down enough.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by cameronbrown on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:05PM (#20780551)
How is meaningful change in society related to shipping Google Drive features?

Time and a place.

Politics has no nuance or filter anymore. It's all the time on full blast, forever. I hate it.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Nullabillity on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:24PM (#20781561)
Plenty of Google Drive features are political. For example, allowing people to monitor who has read a document. Or deciding what the default permission set should be for new files. Or whether or not the files should be encrypted at rest. Or whether the Drive client should download and sync everything, or download stuff on demand. Etc, etc.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by cameronbrown on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:58PM (#20782490)
That's a strawman argument. I think we both know there's a distinction to be made between 'political' and mainstream political conversation. Of course if you're stretching the definition it will include everything.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by ericd on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:57PM (#20781242)
Outrage fatigue is a thing.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by lapnitnelav on Friday August 23, 2019 @05:21PM (#20782718)
In the words of the poet Z. de la Rocha, Anger is a gift.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by xhkkffbf on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:58PM (#20779644)
They can debate this on their own time. Unless you're on the straw team, this doesn't matter.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by refurb on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:22PM (#20779995)
There is a time and place for political discussions.

Work isn't one of them, unless, it's directly related to the work being done.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by tyrust on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:37PM (#20780177)
No one is preventing you from working.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by malandrew on Friday August 23, 2019 @09:47PM (#20784627)
Political discussions in the work place effectively become denial of service attacks on some co-workers. Since you have to collaborate with others at work to get your job done, anything that "DoS" your co-workers "DoS" you as well. Plus it hurts the value of the equity portion of your compensation, so it a way, it's theft too.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by tyrust on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:02AM (#20785143)
These conversations primarily occur online and are thus easily avoidable.

>Plus it hurts the value of the equity portion of your compensation, so it a way, it's theft too.

I doubt it. The culture has probably done more positive than negative for company value. And even if it hasn't, short-term shareholder value definitely isn't the best measure of long-term success. Calling it "theft" is a big stretch.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by im3w1l on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:21AM (#20785192)
When you organize the worlds information, then some amount of politics is a necessary part of the job. The product you are selling is built by political talk.

To give a fairly tame example. Lets say someone googles "Can crystal healing cure cancer". Do you put a box saying no? Do you put put a box saying "according to authority it does not". If you defer to authority to do you defer to different one in different countries? What if they disagree? Maybe we need a list of FUBAR countries?

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by jackcosgrove on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:49PM (#20779493)
I think there are a lot of reasons someone at work may not be doing work, that have nothing to do with talking about politics. BRB...gotta get to work ;)
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by gaze on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:49PM (#20779506)
Yes but what work? Should that work be done? Google just wants everyone to be good little soldiers and do what they’re told.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by arcticbull on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:35PM (#20779297)
Their job is to create a forum for others to debate, and to try and maintain neutrality. Their own politics aren't necessarily relevant. Everyone wants to be able to have their political opinions, try and convince others, and not get fired. It's kind of a pick-2 situation. Feel free to bring politics in with ya so long as you embrace the philosophy that you can say anything you want on your last day.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by TheCapn on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:42PM (#20779395)
>Everyone wants to be able to have their political opinions, try and convince others, and not get fired.

In fact, many people do not want to try and have others convince them of their political leanings.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Aperocky on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:14PM (#20780653)
Yeah, THIS.

Trying to convince other people of MY political leaning goes against one of the central political leaning that I have: Everyone should have freedom to believe in whatever they want to believe in. I also find it annoying when other people try to shove their believe down my throat.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by bcrosby95 on Friday August 23, 2019 @05:04PM (#20782546)
I try to view political discussions as helping to spread information and confront one's own biases. Most people don't seem to though. I've had people that I agree with politically on a subject yell and curse at me because I don't believe every bullshit "fact" they sling my way.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by root_axis on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:40PM (#20779367)
> Their job is to create a forum for others to debate, and to try and maintain neutrality

What? Says who?

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by arcticbull on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:42PM (#20779389)
Others as in not their employees. Google indexes all the worlds information, who says their goal is to impose their opinion on it? Isn't neutrality in indexing the assumption?
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by root_axis on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:54PM (#20780407)
> Google indexes all the worlds information

They do not collect anything even remotely close to "all the worlds information".

> who says their goal is to impose their opinion on it

Their goal is to make money. Whether they impose their opinion on the index is a business decision.

> Isn't neutrality in indexing the assumption?

Why would it be? What if the people that run google have a fundamental disagreement with certain political ideas and have a desire not to index those things?

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Nevermindmine on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:00PM (#20779667)
Why would you assume that?
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by cameronbrown on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:02PM (#20779701)
Speaking for myself here.

Yes and no. Ranking by definition means not being neutral, it's just that society has decided that it's acceptable to rank spam lower than other content. Neutrality looks a lot like bias from the perspective of spammers.

When you're dealing with more complex signals at scale there are so many second and third order effects that are hard or impossible to predict.

For example, the conservative bias everyone's talking about doesn't seem to me to be literal bias against the right, but bias in favour of mainstream news sources which are overwhelmingly left-wing.

I'm sure there are many issues in Search like the one I just described, and being able to have these conversations is what makes it possible for Googlers to spot these issues, decide if it's even an issue and fix it. If you ban a certain type of conversation, you'll change how people think about a potential issue.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by SkyBelow on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:47PM (#20779459)
It would be up to the details of their individuals contracts. It would be possible for someone's contract to either directly (unlikely) or indirectly (far more likely) allow for debating of politics to some degree. That freedom would be part of their compensation package, though one often not considered in simple models. I think Google is realizing they have undervalued the cost to them of allowing such an action and want to renegotiate. Since it is likely an indirect benefit, this would largely be done by changing corporate rules and culture concerning politics where workers could respond in numerous ways.

While it is possible for a contract specifying 8 hours of work without a single thought other than work (and any legally mandated breaks) in exchange for the given salary and benefits, I've never seen any organization that actually operated using such contracts.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by zarkov99 on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:40PM (#20779371)
Because political discussions are incredibly polarizing, specially these days, and once they are allowed they pulverize the company into factions that cannot work together until the more strident or powerful of these factions takes over and pushes everybody else out or into silence. And when this happens, you have an homogeneous political body as the gatekeeper to the worlds information. What could go wrong?
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by sp332 on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:42PM (#20779392)
So the key to a diverse organization is not talking about politics? Seems unlikely.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by zarkov99 on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:49PM (#20779501)
In this day and age, with the gutter level of discourse used daily by politicians? With a media designed to elicit outrage and a populous that has been led to believe that what divides is far more important than what brings us together? Absolutely, at least until the madness goes away.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by concordDance on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:00PM (#20783117)
The politicians are a product of the media environment imo. The blame lies in the race to the bottom that happened in news once it got competetive.

Until the innoculative meme of having an intuitive understanding of sampling (both of individual incidents and individual aspects of a thing) spreads throughout a decent portion of the populatiob, this awful situation will continue.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by weberc2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:20PM (#20779971)
This is counterintuitive. If you emphasize politics, you end up selecting for the dominant viewpoint, thereby reducing diversity. If you don't emphasize politics, you end up selecting for the people who can do the job, which is almost certainly more diverse (to the extent the pipeline doesn't suffer the aforementioned political biases).
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Kalium on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:54PM (#20779573)
One of the keys to a diverse organization is to adopt policies and practices that don't strongly encourage uniformity. Political compatibility is one form of uniformity that can work to reduce diversity and inclusion. Perhaps "Handle With Care" might be a wise attitude?
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by quotemstr on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:53PM (#20779566)
Politics and religion are uniquely divisive subjects, and when you allow endless arguments about them, you create a rigid and hostile atmosphere that kills comity and intellectual collaboration. Everything becomes an argument about politics, and then activism, and than ostracism and purity spirals. It's a classic pattern.

So yes, you really should taboo political arguments if you don't want to drive away people with independent views.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by dantheman on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:46PM (#20779446)
Really, maybe focus on what you have in common and not what's different -- people have a lot more in common and agree about a lot more things than they realize.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by threeseed on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:52PM (#20781887)
The key to diversity is figuring out what unites people.

Politics, religion etc. divides people.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by defertoreptar on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:44PM (#20779412)
If all the discussion stayed within the confines of the company and away from headlines, and they never generated lawsuits, and HR never had to hear employees complain about how such and such had an argument with such and such, then I doubt anyone would mind.

It doesn't matter what the philosophically correct definition of politics is--what matters is reducing HR complaints, lawsuits, and negative headlines.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by dgudkov on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:46PM (#20780302)
Because in theory, a debate is a thoughtful discussion where opponents are respectful to opinions of each other and have the common goal of finding the truth.

In reality, political debating at workplace quickly becomes just ugly.

And for companies like Google it's also costly, because media adore leaked scandals in big corporations.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by bradlys on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:06PM (#20780561)
> In reality, political debating at workplace quickly becomes just ugly.

I don't think it really has to. I debate politics with people at work enough. I won't get into specifics too much but it's not uncommon to meet someone who has a controversial opinion. You talk with someone, find out why they believe what they believe, and then question a few things (mostly asking why they believe they believe - what lead them to their beliefs). It doesn't have to get heated - it can be a boring lecture to one another about why you believe what you believe. It only gets ugly when you do things that won't lead to change like: "No - you're dumb! You should think what I think!" Which I don't think people who are emotionally and socially competent would do that often...

That said - I don't think of people at Google (or other big companies) as being particularly emotionally or socially competent because they don't hire and train for that.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by username90 on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:17PM (#20781477)
Do you discuss politics at work in an online forum where 100 000 persons can pitch in? It is very different from discussing politics in person, things gets way more toxic online since there are more people who can take offence so arguments often escalate.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by bradlys on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:36PM (#20783397)
Sure - I get that. I understand with enough people in a semi-anonymous forum that it could get toxic quickly from just a few bad actors.

However, a lot of the commentary here has been around in-person interactions and not on an online forum.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by throwaway3563 on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:04PM (#20782004)
It could depend on multiple factors, such as: number of people you're debating with, their demographics, and the fact that some people are more ... shall we say... "trigger-happy" than others.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by mc32 on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:34PM (#20779289)
Yes, but that should be determined by subject matter experts in policy and politics.

For example the issue of who controls the three different areas of “Kashmir” should not be settled by the opinions of college graduates who have little exposure to international politics and policy and or history.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by taneq on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:36PM (#20779318)
Because some of them don't agree with the right point of view.... >.>
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by fromthestart on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:22PM (#20782186)
Because Google is not a publisher, and selectively choosing how to present information according to the predominant internal politics is unethical without a disclaimer, which currently does not exist, given Google's status as the defacto gateway to information on the internet.

Curating information in such a manner is, ironically, marginalizing the groups who's views are being suppressed. Information should flow freely for people to make their own decisions. This is a dangerous amount of power for an increasingly biased private entity, particularly given certain choice quotes in this article and others regarding googlers' views on the current presidency.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by 19ylram49 on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:38PM (#20779337)
Exactly. I find it quite bizarre when some folks suggest divorcing from politics as if the possibility exists. Everything is political. Even this very conversation is political.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by magashna on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:48PM (#20779485)
It must be exhausting to have this mindset. Sometimes a story is just a story, a joke is just a joke, and there isn't a me vs you argument to be had.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by crooked-v on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:46PM (#20781072)
Give me a joke and I'll point out the politics inherent in it.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by username90 on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:42PM (#20781782)
Why is 6 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by crooked-v on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:03PM (#20781999)
The joke only works using math with a base of 9 or above and in a language where '8' and 'ate' are homophones, making the use of it biased against people who use other languages or counting systems.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by username90 on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:19PM (#20782163)
A joke not being funny for one group doesn't mean that it is political. And if people are offended over not understanding a joke they would be offended over not understanding a sentence, meaning that every utterance ever is offensive since there is always people who doesn't speak your language. You are absurd here and only strengthened my view that people who say "everything is political" are just trying to sow discord.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by crooked-v on Friday August 23, 2019 @05:36PM (#20782868)
We can see here more politics, as rejecting the interpretation of cultural elements as political is itself a political act of reinforcing the unexamined status quo.

Or, to reverse the situation: consider how you'd feel about things if you came into a workplace where everyone was telling jokes that only make sense if you know Chinese culture, and then if you mentioned that you felt left out, told you to stop complaining because you were only trying to 'sow discord'.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by mrknowitall on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:04AM (#20785149)
And they I told you to go ahead and expand your horizons by learning about Chinese culture so that you wouldn't feel "left out". Are you seriously arguing this or are you trolling?
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by crooked-v on Saturday August 24, 2019 @11:26PM (#20791168)
> And they I told you to go ahead and expand your horizons by learning about Chinese culture so that you wouldn't feel "left out".

No, you defaulted to responding to the very idea of a possible cultural clash as something "absurd" and "trying to sow discord". Again, more politics: that kind of response is regularly witnessed in status-quo-reinforcing political actions.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Koshkin on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:42PM (#20779391)
> Everything is political.

Math is not political.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by tl on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:51PM (#20779536)
Math is definitely political.

Problem #1: All models are invalid, some are useful. You need to stop ignorant actors who don’t understand that 3 is not a valid approximation of Pi, while simultaneously stopping pedants who want to everything to be accurate in ways that are not compatible with the IEEE standard for float.

Problem #2: There are lies, damned lies and statistics. People who want to push $NOT_YOUR_VIEWPOINT will cite more studies than you have time to evaluate to prove you wrong.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by SkyBelow on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:51PM (#20779534)
Math is probably one of the if not the least political thing out there, but there are still politics involved. For starters, all mathematicians need funding and choosing who to fund is partially political. Deciding awards is partially political. Even the importance of taking or rejecting some axioms and if certain fields still have value for further research is political. There are even different axioms one can use to derive math from, and choosing one over another is partially political (though it is interesting to see how each one deals with Russell's paradox).
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by quotemstr on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:59PM (#20779648)
You can find a way to relate politics to any endeavor, but politics is central to things like tax policy in a way that it's not central to, say, N-dimensional manifolds. Equating the two kinds of relationship is a fundamentally dishonest intellectual tactic used by people who want to inject political activism into every human endeavor. People need to stop doing that.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by SkyBelow on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:49PM (#20781109)
I think people are too quick to forget the importance of funding and the impact it has. For example, if a study comes out that A suffers from f, but no study exists that says B suffers from f, is that because there was a study that didn't find it or because there has not been such a study, perhaps due to lack of funding. This then has an impact on actual law when attempting to base law on science (should we set aside funding to help A but not B with f?).

With math in particular, the way statistics are used to represent and draw conclusions from data can be highly political, especially when dealing with a very unpopular study and the level of criticism it receives compared to a popular study.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by weberc2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:23PM (#20780007)
> Math is probably one of the if not the least political thing out there

If you can concede that some things are less political than others, then how difficult is it to assume that "No political conversations" is a shorthand for "conversations about things which are not highly political"?

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by SkyBelow on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:41PM (#20781008)
Quite difficult, when the example was used in response to the statement "Everything is political." I would even say the contemplation of such a concession would be evidence of the original point as it suggests that we should just accept that everything is political and thus when someone says not everything is political they mean that some things are far less political than others.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by weberc2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:53PM (#20781183)
Yup, that's my point. Saying "everything is political" might be true, but it misses the point that some things are far less political than others, and almost everyone who says things like "no political conversation" probably means "no highly political conversation".
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by kerzol on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:29PM (#20782240)
The question of whether a certain discission have more "politics inside" than another is a very political one, especially when someone tries to have a right opinion (even if the advocated opinion is "let us promote diversity and respect different political opinions) and use it to achieve some goals.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by weberc2 on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:49PM (#20783512)
I think any reasonable definition of "politicalness" must respect consensus, and I think you'll find significant consensus that things like "abortion" are more political than things like "math". Arguments like "everything is political" are almost always an excuse used by firebrands to legitimize their pet issue--in this case, to make talking about their politics as appropriate in the workplace as getting their work done.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by justinmeiners on Friday August 23, 2019 @04:39PM (#20782312)
This is just not true. Math is neither objective or apolitical.

I recommend reading "Descartes Dream."

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Koshkin on Friday August 23, 2019 @05:47PM (#20782991)
It is in their mathematical expression that the laws of nature find their most precise form. Math, therefore, is the single most objective kind of knowledge. But, at the same time, that also means that Math cannot be political. (I am not talking about the impact of mathematics on the society, which is what the book is about.)
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by justinmeiners on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:12PM (#20783207)
> the single most objective kind of knowledge

That's likely true.

> that also means that Math cannot be political.

That doesn't follow from the first assumption.

The context here is that someone is claiming math is a counterexample to "everything being political" unfortunately I don't think there is a counterexample.

> which is what the book is about

Many of the chapters are about this. There is a chapter about mathematical rhetoric and how math is used to persuade people.

I would add that mathematical abstractions represent a particular philosophy of viewing the world. For example greek geometry is heavily biased by Platonism.

Just look at the phrase you used: "law of nature". Is nature governed by "laws"? This is certainly a position in an argument about how the world works.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by crooked-v on Friday August 23, 2019 @05:44PM (#20782961)
Consider the difference between a culture that uses base 10 and a culture that uses base 25. They're going to have different conceptions of "manageable amounts", which could have all kinds of knock-on effects when it comes to the management of political entities.

In other words, math doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by izzydata on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:51PM (#20779530)
You just aren't trying hard enough.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by magashna on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:00PM (#20779677)
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by tomatotomato37 on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:03PM (#20781308)
I find the notion that think that you think that its even morally appropriate to have a debate on skub to be absolutely reprehensible and disgusting, and I refuse to engage you further.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by izzydata on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:25PM (#20780809)
Which are you and what's your favorite color?
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by magashna on Friday August 23, 2019 @02:27PM (#20780836)
All I need to know is we disagree and I hate you.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by DonHopkins on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:52PM (#20779541)
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by fzeroracer on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:49PM (#20779498)
Google's page ranking algorithm can be considered very political despite being essentially just math as you put it.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by thatswrong0 on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:12PM (#20779849)
Yet the use of math in practical ways often is.
Re:Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore by Verdex on Friday August 23, 2019 @01:12PM (#20779855)