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Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by pmoriarty on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:19PM (#20759915)
Relying on randomness is not good enough, not for voting. A chance, no matter how small, of a different candidate than the one actually voted in by the people getting in to office is not worth the risk.
Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by gbrown on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:33PM (#20760072)
No matter how small? What about one in a million? One in ten million? This is literally what statistics is for - randomness is a powerful tool against fraud, not some weak cop-out.
Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by mikeash on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:32PM (#20760063)
That chance always exists. Your choices are to minimize it or pretend it doesn’t exist, but there’s no way to actually eliminate it.
Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by umanwizard on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:29PM (#20761373)
Why?

If the result is 49.999% vs. 50.001%, you cannot conclude anything meaningful about the will of the people. Maybe the weather was just slightly worse in a neighborhood supporting the losing candidate and it tipped the result slightly.

So even if the voting process is perfect, that close of a result is totally random for other reasons.

Most people don't seem to be capable of thinking about non-determinism like this, though. Witness the huge number of Americans who think the presidential election is illegitimate because Trump got 46% of the vote to Clinton's 48%, when honestly 46 vs. 48 is very little difference in terms of what they mean about the general will about Americans.

On the other end of the political spectrum, witness the amount of Brits who think a 52-48 vote to leave the EU is somehow relevant.

In calculus/analysis terms: this is why proportional representation parliamentary systems are better -- because the function from "how many people support which parties" to "what policies you end up with" is not discontinuous.

If the UK ran on a proportional system, they'd be getting some sort of very soft, Norway model Brexit. If the US did, a center-right Democrat like Clinton or Biden would be PM.

Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by Someone1234 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:54PM (#20760331)
I was talking about random audits on top of targeted audits if suspicious activity exists just to be clear.

Routine double counting all votes would be controversial due to the high cost.

Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by greglindahl on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @02:55PM (#20760345)
I've never seen anyone advocate abolishing recounts for close races. Random audits all of the time is an addition to current procedures, not a replacement.
Re:16M Americans will vote on hackable paperless machines by rhinoceraptor on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @03:36PM (#20760794)
We already have an 11% failure rate for the presidency, and it has nothing to do with recording votes accurately.