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Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by bluedino on Monday August 19, 2019 @06:43PM (#20742460)
I never hear much about Paul Allen. Bill was a bit of a business shark, I wondered if Allen was his ‘Woz’
Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by Ididntdothis on Monday August 19, 2019 @07:06PM (#20742558)
As far as I know Gates was a very good developer himself.
Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by wolco on Monday August 19, 2019 @07:41PM (#20742698)
Paul Allen was known as a much better programmer than Bill Gates. But comparing them to Steve/Steve doesn't make sense.

Bill Gates didn't write DOS he purchased it after selling it to IBM. More of a business guy than pure programmer.

Steve was in a class himself creating the hardware/software for the orginal apple.

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by adventured on Monday August 19, 2019 @08:14PM (#20742859)
> Paul Allen was known as a much better programmer than Bill Gates.

In his book, Idea Man, Paul Allen openly proclaims that Bill Gates was a superior programmer to him. Allen says that he was, however, better than Gates in other ways, including when it came to assembly or anything working very close to hardware (Allen's most important Microsoft product after the very early days, was for example the SoftCard).

Further, Allen illuminates in his book that Gates was in fact an extraordinary programmer. He notes that Gates had a particular gift for raw output, endurance and figuring out ways to make their code as efficient in size as it could possibly be.

This article lends further support:

"Could Bill Gates write code? Yes. And then some, Altair BASIC dis-assemblers reckon"

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/15/could_bill_gates_wr...

> Reuben Harris has been disassembling a binary with some help from Monte Davidoff, the third author of Altair BASIC (along with Gates and Paul Allen) and who we interviewed here last week. He has the same question in mind:

> "'Could Bill Gates Write Code?' Or was he merely the luckiest man alive," before concluding... "Yes He Bloody Could!"

> Although Reuben's analysis is not quite complete, he tells us that Gates, Allen and Davidoff threw every trick at the book to squeeze the interpreter into 4 kilobytes. They succeeded and left some headroom for the programs themselves - without which it would have been pretty useless, of course.

> "It was pretty incredible - they were pretty good at what they were doing," he tells us.

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by jsjohnst on Monday August 19, 2019 @07:56PM (#20742770)
> More of a business guy than pure programmer.

Bill Gates actually was a very strong programmer in the early days, so this characterization is misguided. He was very passionate about writing code for other developers, not about catering to end users. It wasn’t until later in Microsoft’s history that he was more business focused.

Happy to dig up articles to back this up, but seriously it should be trivial to find tons via a simple google search if you really care.

Edit: re-DOS, sure they bought it. Do you know anyone who can write an operating system in under a month (the timeline MicroSoft had with IBM)?

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by ddingus on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @11:04AM (#20747752)
See the Model 100. Gates wrote that system ROM. 8085 assembly language.

It is a nice system for the time.

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by ackbar03 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:30AM (#20743853)
If we're comparing jobs to gates, I think it's also fair to say that gates doesn't compare as well on the 'business' aspect since his family connections helped him get that meeting with IBM. Jobs on the other hand was a hippy and hustled all the way
Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by adventured on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @01:39AM (#20744125)
There's some warranted skepticism with that premise.

Microsoft was one of the largest software companies on the planet already by 1980 and among the few software companies in existence of any market relevance or development capability that could appeal to a company the size of IBM.

They did $8 million in sales in 1980, $26 million adjusted to 2019. That was a massive software business at the time, and only five years old.

Bill Gates was far richer than his family by 1980, at the age of 25. Microsoft's margins were extreme back then, 40% to 50% on that $8m. Gates was worth $100+ million inflation adjusted by the end of 1980.

That success was accomplished without using family connections to get deals. It's questionable whether Microsoft required help connecting with IBM. Microsoft was already well on its way to being a billion dollar valuation business in today's dollar.

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by dan_hawkins on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @12:44PM (#20749021)
Well, family connections are true, here's excerpt from Bill's mother bio: "Her tenure on the national board's executive committee is believed to have helped Microsoft, based in Seattle, at a crucial time. In 1980, she discussed her son's company with John Opel, a fellow committee member and the chairman of International Business Machines Corporation (IBM). Opel, by some accounts, mentioned Mrs. Gates to other IBM executives. A few weeks later, IBM took a chance by hiring Microsoft, then a small software firm, to develop an operating system for its first personal computer." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Maxwell_Gates
Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by WalterBright on Monday August 19, 2019 @08:47PM (#20742983)
> Bill Gates didn't write DOS he purchased it after selling it to IBM

As I recall the purchased DOS was extensively modified and redone for IBM.

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by wolco on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @08:17AM (#20746010)
But sold it before he had a copy.
Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by wernsey on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @05:00AM (#20744965)
filfre does have a history of the IBM PC that tells the story of how it came to be and the dealings between IBM and MicroSoft and (with Kildall of Digital).

It is worth a read.

https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-1/

Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by webwielder2 on Monday August 19, 2019 @07:43PM (#20742707)
I've always gotten the impression that Microsoft was from the beginning more of a business enterprise than an engineering one. Gates and Allen wrote BASIC for the Altair, and then made it big by buying QDOS after Gary Kildall was out of the office when IBM came by for a meeting. Doesn't really compare with the revolutions of the Apple II and Macintosh.
Re:Jobs and Woz (2011) by jsjohnst on Monday August 19, 2019 @08:03PM (#20742806)
> I've always gotten the impression that Microsoft was from the beginning more of a business enterprise than an engineering one.

At the risk of being rude, if that’s the impression you had, then you’ve been entirely misled. Microsoft in the early days was quiet literally the exact opposite.

I recommend reading virtually any book (there’s a lot) on the early history of MicroSoft.