In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms than buy fossil fuels

Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by Retric on Sunday August 18, 2019 @06:31AM (#20729403)

You’re close to the situation at hand. Wind does not match the demand curve, but it’s vastly cheaper than natural gas.

This means wasting a significant percentage of wind generation is still a net savings. Currently curtailment aka excessive wind production is relatively low percentage of generation, but based on current prices it’s cheaper to build more wind just to offset more natural gas use.

You end up needing to pay for the generators either way. So, currently the breakpoint ends up being when 1/2 of all wind power is wasted resulting in 2 x 10$/MWh your at breakeven with fuel costing $20/MW-hr.

However, current natural gas prices are market driven. Reduced demand will lower prices, but that’s still a net win for power companies. In the coming years as new wind power comes online the economic situation will change, but for now massive investments look like a very good deal.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by jcims on Sunday August 18, 2019 @06:56AM (#20729488)

For individual residential generation solar seems cheaper than wind. Is there a cutover between solar and wind?

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by Retric on Sunday August 18, 2019 @07:10AM (#20729531)

Yes, wind gets cheaper as you scale up the turbine. The transition is something like 1 MW turbines, but this is very location specific for both wind and solar.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by mapt on Monday August 19, 2019 @01:25PM (#20739718)

Wind doesn't make a lot of sense when sized to serve a house, or even a neighborhood. It becomes economical hundreds of feet in the air with turbine blades the size of a city block.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by heyflyguy on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:28AM (#20729788)

vastly cheaper than natural gas?

Natural gas has negative pricing right now due to being stranded in production!

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by Retric on Sunday August 18, 2019 @08:37AM (#20729825)

I am currently seeing: 2.20 USD/MMBtu for Aug 16 2019 which is greater than zero. http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/natural-gas/...

The article translated whatever the price was when they wrote it into 20$/MWh. I assume it’s still reasonably accurate as it was published yesterday and the price has been fairly consistent recently.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by heyflyguy on Sunday August 18, 2019 @09:08AM (#20729932)

Good to use data. What I am referring to are the pre-wellhead prices which can't even be measured because the gas producers will not pay to put it on the pipeline. Ergo the negative pricing.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by delinka on Sunday August 18, 2019 @09:18AM (#20729964)

"negative pricing" sounds like they'll pay me to use it, if only I would just use it. I can see that's not your intent, but I suspect that's the first reading of many.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by whatshisface on Sunday August 18, 2019 @11:01AM (#20730531)

They literally would pay you to use it, if you would go to the trouble of taking it off their hands. There are legal restrictions on those gas flares now, so they can't just burn all of it like they used to.

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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by gleglegle on Sunday August 18, 2019 @12:51PM (#20731326)

Where is this true? https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.php?page=natural_g...

Just because there stranded natural gas exists doesn't mean the market prices are below zero.

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