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Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by benj111 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @04:26AM (#20728977)
"The thing is, you'll build all these solar and wind farms and then still build and run the fossil plants, because you aren't able to store the energy to make it reliable enough."

So? If we only halve fossil fuel use does that not mean its worth doing?

The article states that wind power is now cheaper than just the fuel for NG power plants, so its financially advantageous to move to wind whilst maintaining NG plants. And its environmentally advantageous even though we may not have all the answers right now.

I'm not even sure if there is a 'the' answer. The solution will be probably be a combination of all of the above, plus HVDC, plus smart grid type features.

BTW laptops and phones are the worst environments for batteries, they're hot and enclosed. Look at EV battery warranties, the Bolt is 8 years, the powerwall warranty is 10 years. The expectation, and experience is they'll last much longer.

Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by hef19898 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @04:37AM (#20729009)
One, also inefficient, way to get to storage is by using surplus renewables (wind, solar) to generate bio gas (CNG or even LPG) for later use. Not the most efficient solution, but does that really matter when marginal costs for wind and solar are basically zero?
Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by benj111 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @04:47AM (#20729044)
Depends on the cost relative to other options.

I would guess that if costs keep dropping you'd get a certain amount of overbuilding for the low energy demand season so you'd have capacity there for some kind of clean gas technology.

I wish the boffins would start crunching the numbers though. If my gas boiler breaks today, should I replace it or fit a heat pump? If I replace my kitchen should I keep a gas hob or move to electric?? These are less than once a decade purchasing decisions and theres absolutely no visibility on whether gas to the home is going to be a thing in the medium term.

Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by hef19898 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @01:05PM (#20731409)
It's as much seasonal as it is spread over time. Solar is strong around noon when demand is, as of now, rather low.
Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by benj111 on Sunday August 18, 2019 @05:16PM (#20732936)
Intraday, batteries would make more sense. Higher efficiency, quicker to react, 365 cycles a year to recoup costs.

You are probably never going to get to a point where you're charging a battery now for use sometime in January. That's where some kind of bio gas would come in, because it is feasible to store it long term.

Re:In the US, it's cheaper to build and operate wind farms t... by hef19898 on Tuesday August 20, 2019 @03:36PM (#20751067)
Exactly that!