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Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by yellowapple on Friday August 16, 2019 @11:15AM (#20715985)
> The real problem, as the author tangentially points out, is our over-reliance on cars to move us around.

And the author fails to explain why (in the context of climate change) that's actually a problem. Suburban areas have a disproportionate carbon footprint specifically because of ICE-powered cars being required to go anywhere; if those ICE cars become electric cars, and that electricity comes from solar/wind/nuclear/hydro/geothermal/etc., then... where, exactly, is the carbon footprint?

Hell, at that point the suburban areas could actually be net carbon sinks, given there's more room for big carbon-devouring trees in between single-family/duplex/quadruplex homes than there typically is between skyscrapers packed as tightly as possible (as is the norm in even small cities, let alone large ones).

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by JKCalhoun on Friday August 16, 2019 @12:19PM (#20716705)
> And the author fails to explain why (in the context of climate change) that's actually a problem ... if those ICE cars become electric cars, and that electricity comes from solar/wind/nuclear/hydro/geothermal/etc., then... where, exactly, is the carbon footprint?

The author very specifically points that out:

> ...our cars primarily exist to connect things, things that require immense extraction and fossil fuel energy to build, run and maintain: roads buildings factories shopping centres suburbs cities airports and so on. It is not just the car itself that is unsustainable; it is our entire way of life and the system that underpins it.

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by yellowapple on Friday August 16, 2019 @05:44PM (#20720009)
Okay, and those things don't go away - nor do we stop building them - if we use buses or trains or planes or boats or teleportation pads instead. What about cars, specifically, contributes to this where other modes of transportation do not?

I can almost understand this for roads (but buses still need those, too!). Literally everything else is entirely orthogonal to cars or the lack thereof; abolishing cars entirely v. switching to electric-only would have zero impact there.

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by notJim on Friday August 16, 2019 @02:28PM (#20718076)
> Hell, at that point the suburban areas could actually be net carbon sinks, given there's more room for big carbon-devouring trees in between single-family/duplex/quadruplex homes than there typically is between skyscrapers packed as tightly as possible (as is the norm in even small cities, let alone large ones).

This is absurd. If people move away from the suburbs, the trees will still be there, and more if we get into reforestation. Building a suburb generally involves cutting down trees. Humans living in a smaller area of the planet leaves more room for trees.

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by yellowapple on Friday August 16, 2019 @07:38PM (#20720732)
> Building a suburb generally involves cutting down trees.

Only for cities/suburbs that exist in forested areas. This would exclude most desert and prairie ecosystems (for example).

> Humans living in a smaller area of the planet leaves more room for trees.

Sure, mathematically-speaking, and planet-wide. On a more local scale, though, this is not necessarily the case.

There's also the consideration for relative density of CO₂ sources v. sinks. I don't have any actual data here, so feel free to ignore this, but my hypothesis is that urban areas would have significantly higher CO₂ densities than suburban areas (which would in turn have significantly higher densities than rural areas, and in turn wilderness areas), and this high-density CO₂ would not readily/easily/immediately disperse / would be more difficult for surrounding carbon-sink areas (like wilderness and - I'd argue - potentially suburban areas) to even receive, let alone absorb. You thus end up with big lingering blobs of CO₂, continuously fueled by human occupation, and unable to disperse. Spreading out humans would better spread that CO₂ sequestration load, thus allowing better efficiencies.

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by localhost on Friday August 16, 2019 @12:45PM (#20716982)
Another aspect of suburban living that I don't like at all is how it isolates people from each other. I've made the mistake of living in a subdivision with lot sizes > 0.5 acres. Because of the low density, my kids can't have spontaneous interactions with friends that I enjoyed while younger, i.e., walk / cycle to their houses to hang out. Everything becomes scheduled and everything requires a car to shuttle the kids around to their activities.

I've become convinced that density really is the answer to building a more humane way of living.

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by cr0sh on Friday August 16, 2019 @03:53PM (#20719042)
> I've become convinced that density really is the answer to building a more humane way of living.

Counterpoint?: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

Re:The electric car as a talisman of false hope by yellowapple on Friday August 16, 2019 @06:03PM (#20720147)
Having grown up in a rural area, the openness and freedom/room to play outdoors was - IMO - well worth the inconvenience of things being more spread out (not that this was ever that big of a problem; the main pain point was more the lack of sidewalks and bike lanes, but that's relatively easy to fix).

This was in an area where (IIRC) the mandated minimum lot size was 1 acre, and the vast majority of properties were 5+ (I lived on 8).