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Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by sergiosgc on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @06:58AM (#20684481)
It's still not a clear choice, at least not in Portugal. A solar panel + battery setup pays itself back in 10-12 years, without selling electricity back to the grid. This exceeds the warranty/lifetime on batteries and exceeds the warranty on panels (although not the lifetime). It's a risky proposition.

Selling back to the grid is priced at the wholesale price: 4¢/kWh (slated for 5¢ early next year). It's sold at a loss, since consumer prices are about 10¢/kWh by night and 20¢/kWh by day. The ability to sell back does not move the needle on the payback period.

And note that Portugal is a sunny country. A panel works, on yearly average, 5h/day at full power. In central/northern Europe the numbers are probably worse.

Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by piotr1212 on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @08:10AM (#20684960)
> 4¢/kWh (slated for 5¢ early next year). It's sold at a loss, since consumer prices are about 10¢/kWh by night and 20¢/kWh by day

Isn't this "selling at a loss" just the difference that the 10 / 20 c is after tax and you sell without tax, or do you have to add tax to the 10/20 c?

Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by sergiosgc on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @08:20AM (#20685044)
There's no tax involved, other than VAT, which applies to both prices.
Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by krageon on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @08:42AM (#20685218)
If you have been told there is no tax involved someone is lying to you. The cost of maintaining the grid and providing power is not as high as you quote as far as I am aware.
Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by piotr1212 on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @08:49AM (#20685268)
Are you sure? Does electricity in Portugal cost 10 to 20 cent before tax? Why is it so expensive? We pay 6 cent/kWH before tax in the Netherlands.
Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by gdhbcc on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @09:50AM (#20685789)
Because we had a government owned company with a monopoly that the EU forced us to sell. So now we have a private monopoly instead of a public one.
Re:Solar now ‘cheaper than grid electricity’ in every Chines... by piotr1212 on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @10:14AM (#20686007)
https://econews.pt/2018/08/07/why-are-electricity-bills-so-h...

> If we breakdown prices, we realize that families in Portugal have the second highest tax burden in Europe (12 cents per kilowatt-hour).