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Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by jimbokun on Friday August 09, 2019 @09:55AM (#20654311)
The books recommended by Kay here are very much about DEPTH, not BREADTH.

The majority of programming books are just ephemera and arcana and details that will be irrelevant in a year, or next month when the new version of the framework comes out.

Kay points to books, like the original Lisp Programming Manual, that will help you understand deep core concepts about computing itself, that will remain applicable no matter what framework or library you need to use tomorrow.

Take an Alan Kay, a McCarthy, Norvig, Abelson, Sussman, Armstrong, Steele, etc. from their prime and drop them into a software company where they have zero familiarity with the programming languages or tools currently being used, and within days or weeks they will be the most productive developer at that company by far. They will come up with simple, elegant, high performance and correct solutions to problems none of the other developers would have even considered.

Those are the kinds of thinkers you want to emulate, if you really want to write excellent software solving real problems in the shortest amount of time.

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by neilv on Friday August 09, 2019 @10:46AM (#20654837)
It doesn't even have to be "from their prime" (and I don't like to encourage that ageism concept, now that we have hiring managers fresh out of school). I'm comfortable asserting that, at any age, they will probably be high-value, having enough background to have insights and see connections that others cannot yet, now with a lot of general wisdom besides. See Danny Hillis's writeup on Feynman at Thinking Machines. You'd just need to offer them a compelling work situation, with problems that interest them.
Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by GuiA on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:16PM (#20656360)
> You'd just need to offer them a compelling work situation, with problems that interest them.

If you want to attract those kind of people and have them do their best work, then part of the “compelling work situation is to let them pursue their own problems.

Alan Kay:

” I don’t run CDG, I visit it. [Xerox PARC founder Robert] Taylor didn’t want to hire anyone who needed to be managed. That’s not the way it works. I have people on my list who are already moving in great directions, according to their own inner visions. I didn’t have to explain to these people what they would be working on, because they already are. Bret Victor has already hired four people that I didn’t know about. I wanted people to fund, not manage.”

https://www.fastcompany.com/3046437/5-steps-to-recreate-xero...

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by jimbokun on Friday August 09, 2019 @12:57PM (#20656168)
Heh, true, I just added "from their prime" because I know not all of them are still alive so would not add much to a development team in their current state.
Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by yitianjian on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:25PM (#20656442)
You never know, something like "The Hand of Alan Turing" might be a fairly decent draw for hiring
Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by davidw on Friday August 09, 2019 @04:00PM (#20657791)
I'm totally picturing The Hand treated like a relic in some Italian church, along these lines:

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/st-anthonys-tongue

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by gabrielizaias on Friday August 09, 2019 @10:44AM (#20654814)
> to write excellent software solving real problems in the shortest amount of time.

This should be on the wall of every developer's workplace.

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by david927 on Friday August 09, 2019 @10:55AM (#20654932)
> ephemera and arcana and details that will be irrelevant in a year

Personally, I like this one.

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by rubber_duck on Friday August 09, 2019 @11:08AM (#20655046)
That sounds like JS developer mentality where you rewrite everything in a different framework every year so figuring stuff out in-depth is a waste of time and you just duct tape everything to get it working.

Ephemera and arcana I've learned decade ago still serve me well today, even when it's outdated people mostly either reinvent stuff so I can recognise new stuff as a variation on an existing thing or build on previous solutions so I know the details and circumstances that lead to some developments and this lets me understand new things better as well (puts it in context).

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by reroute1 on Friday August 09, 2019 @04:00PM (#20657786)
No it sounds like bad development mentality in any language.
Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by technofiend on Friday August 09, 2019 @01:02PM (#20656207)
>Ephemera and arcana I've learned decade ago still serve me well today,

I think the usual back and forth about developer interviews may have this thought as an underlying assumption; specifically people who can solve a red/black tree on the whiteboard at the drop of a hat must be filled to the brim with useful but potentially obscure knowledge. (Obscure to those who haven't majored in CS or a related field.)

It would be interesting to submit an ask hn "What is your so there I was doing x, y, z when being able to answer obscure interview question seventeen saved the day" story. (That's not well worded but you get the idea).

Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by 0x445442 on Friday August 09, 2019 @06:00PM (#20658551)
And they all would have failed to get past the phone screen from the recruiter wanting to know how many years of experience they have had with "the XML" or "the Spring".
Re:Alan Kay's answer to ‘what are some forgotten books progr... by Exuma on Saturday August 10, 2019 @12:32PM (#20662987)
Can you give a concrete example of some topics it covers in breadth and how it would help me to read that book? FWIW I mostly program in ruby, go, elixir, and I program web apps.