News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by mrob on Friday July 26, 2019 @01:13AM (#20532520)
Here's the first coal power plant I found on Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel_power_station#/med...

Exact same evaporative cooling towers as used in nuclear power plants, which is what you'd expect seeing as they use the same steam turbines to drive their generators.

And a diagram of a generic coal power plant:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Coal_fired_power_plant_di...

Again, water cooled.

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by masklinn on Friday July 26, 2019 @02:04AM (#20532727)
FWIW plants with cooler towers are not really affected by the heat wave, as an other comment notes the issue is for plants next to intermediate bodies of water (in France that's mostly plants on the Rhone which is a pretty large river): since they were next to a pretty big body of water they were designed without cooling towers, but the combination of warming & body of water not being quite big enough it's possible for the water flow & temperatures to adversely effect cooling and thus require throttling.
Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by ars on Friday July 26, 2019 @03:03PM (#20537447)
From the article you linked: "Waste heat from the condenser is transferred either to the air, or sometimes to a cooling pond, lake or river."

Coal plants can certainly use ponds to cool, but air cooling works just fine for them. Unlike Nuclear Coal can eject most of its heat, as exhaust from burning the coal, into the air.

I have to add, it was a little dishonest of you to link to the one photo with cooling towers, and not to all the other ones that don't have them.

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by mrob on Friday July 26, 2019 @03:50PM (#20537812)
>it was a little dishonest of you to link to the one photo with cooling towers

It's the first picture on the page "Fossil fuel power station", which is the redirect for "coal power plant".

The second photograph is Currant Creek Power Plant, which is a relatively modern (2005) gas-fired plant, which does indeed use air cooling.

The third photograph is the decommissioned coal-fired Carbon Power Plant. Although not clear from the photo, this uses water cooling. The cooling towers are visible here:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705396191/New-mercury-st...

The fourth photograph is the decommissioned coal-fired Mohave Power Station. This also uses water cooling, although its cooling towers are shorter and wider than the classic hyperboloid design.

Fifth is the active Taichung Power Plant, coal-fired, also water cooled according to its Wikipedia page.

100% of the photographs of coal power plants on the page reached by searching Wikipedia for "coal power plant" show water-cooled plants. How is my example dishonest?

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by ars on Friday July 26, 2019 @05:18PM (#20538407)
I see the problem. We are confusing cooling towers with river water cooling, also called "once-through cooling".

Cooling towers are specifically when you don't use river water for cooling.

Your first photo has a large lake in front of it, so clearly they will use that, but the rest don't, they only have the towers.

Nuclear plants almost always use once-through cooling or cooling ponds, but coal plants typically don't, and are unaffected by the heat limits (which are environmental for fish, not technical for power generation).

Edit: Notice how in the diagram you linked there is a river for cooling, but there is no tower? Coal plants will have one or the other, but nuclear uses both, and that's because most of the waste heat from coal goes up the chimney.

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by mrob on Friday July 26, 2019 @10:01PM (#20539919)
I am not confusing anything. In https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20532446 you said "Coal plants are air cooled, not water cooled". I simply posted a counterexample. The coal plant is water cooled, and all the other coal plants pictured in the Wikipedia article are also water cooled. You still haven't justified your accusation of this being "dishonest".

>but nuclear uses both

People have already posted multiple examples of nuclear plants that use only one, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20532670

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by gonzo on Friday July 26, 2019 @01:25AM (#20532570)
Nope. The towers are to reduce water usage and lower the temperature of the water before it is returned to the environment.

https://allthingsnuclear.org/dlochbaum/shh-secrets-of-the-co...

They cool the water, not the plant.

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by benj111 on Friday July 26, 2019 @01:58AM (#20532701)
Ars claimed that coal power stations are air cooled, your parent is refuting that by pointing out the cooling towers.

Cooling towers cool water because it was heated up in some way, possibly by cooling the power plant.

Re:Hot weather cuts French, German nuclear power output by ars on Friday July 26, 2019 @05:19PM (#20538420)
He's right, they use the tower to pre-cool the water before using river water to cool it even more.

Coal plants typically only have the tower, and don't use river water.