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Re:A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Appro... by YeGoblynQueenne on Monday July 22, 2019 @06:41PM (#20502958)
>> Second, my guess is that it means that paper authors are using excess "puffery" in an attempt to improve the chances that their papers are accepted for publication. They've decided that using a weak baseline and claiming a 50% improvement is more likely to result in publication than using a realistic baseline and claiming a 0-5% improvement. Unfortunately, they are probably right.

I fear this contradicts your assertion that published results are not garbage. If researchers are claiming their systems are strong based on the fact that they beat weak baselines, then their claims are rubbish and their scholarship shoddy. If, on top of that, their work is difficult to reproduce, or replicate (by the distinction in the paper) then the published results are beyond garbage- they are meaningles garbage, garbage that fails to prove even its weak and insignificant claim to beat a weak baseline.

Basically, this is exactly the kind of shoddy scholarship that Backus accused social scientists of, in his infamous speech about "Cargo-Cult Science". In that speech, he points out that basing new research on previous weak research can only lead in the proliferation of weak results (my interpretation of his words, from memory).

This seems very much to be the case in machine learning research today. This article only provides further evidence that there is something rotten to the core in machine learning research.

>> Reviewers should push back against weak baselines, but be more accepting of results that make modest claims.

Agreed about the second part, however, the paper in the OP says that the way things are, it is very difficult to know which baselines are strong. My interpretation: because they're all trying to beat weak baselines that became established by beating earlier weak baselines. It's weak baselines all the way down.

Re:A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Appro... by SubiculumCode on Monday July 22, 2019 @07:25PM (#20503217)
Weak baselines are not necessarily inappropriate. If using a new approach the point is to show that it is a viable direction for further exploration and refinement, not always whether it can beat finely tuned, well explored approaches.
Re:A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Appro... by prashp on Monday July 22, 2019 @08:45PM (#20503553)
I disagree with you. Weak baselines are inappropriate, especially when claiming 'state-of-the-art' results, which is very common in ML literature these days. If weak baselines are used as proof of superiority for a particular method, there are infinite other methods/minor adjustments which can be shown to be superior using the same logic.
Re:A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Appro... by SubiculumCode on Monday July 22, 2019 @08:54PM (#20503597)
State of the art is already a dubiously vague expression, but I think you miss my point. I would think usually the point is not that it is superior approach, but a viable one to explore.
Re:A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Appro... by hpoe on Monday July 22, 2019 @09:53PM (#20503828)
I believe talking the first scientist to talk about Cargo Cult science was Feynman. Just small correction.
Re:A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Appro... by YeGoblynQueenne on Tuesday July 23, 2019 @04:48AM (#20505335)
You're right, it was Feyman. Somehow I got the two mixed in my head- apologies.

Also, sorry HN, for the controversial comment (judging by the rollercoaster vote activity). I hope it adds something to the discussion despite the tone and I'll remember to keep the tone down in the future (but I keep saying that and I always end up giving in to the temptation to use more colourful language. I suck and I'm sorry).