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Re:Carthago delenda est by FabHK on Saturday July 20, 2019 @11:36PM (#20489823)
Cato's famous phrase, "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam", is feared for its grammar, but it is quite expressive and not really that hard. It is a combination of two constructions: ACI, Accusativus cum infinitivo, which also exists in English, sort of: I see he swims or I see him swimming (in Latin it would be "I see him to swim") = I see that he swims. The other thing is the gerundive, which expresses an obligation. Sounds complicated, but it really isn't - same thing as English "This is to be done" meaning "This ought to be done".

Now, in Latin, the ACI construction can be done with many verbs, not only "to see" ("I see him swimming") but also with "censeo", or "I opine, think" ("I opine him swimming" - I think he swims.) Next, throw in a cool "Ceterum" = by the way, and combine this with the obligation of the gerundive, and we get:

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam =

"By the way, I think that Carthago is to be eliminated."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusative_and_infinitive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerundive

Re:Carthago delenda est by askthereception on Sunday July 21, 2019 @04:58AM (#20490525)
Your example using the verb "see" is not quite right, but a genuine ACI does exist in English: I want him to swim / I expect him to swim.

For another example, in Dutch it happens to work with "see" (zien): "ik zie hem zwemmen" (I see him [to] swim), it doesn't work with want, and with expect, "verwachten", you would have to add "to": "Ik verwacht hem te zwemmen" (I expect him to swim).

Re:Carthago delenda est by FabHK on Wednesday July 24, 2019 @12:06PM (#20516631)
Yes, thanks for pointing that out, I was indeed taking the example from German (where "sehen" works with a genuine ACI like Dutch) and put it in English without much thought, particularly without realising that other examples do work in English.
Re:Carthago delenda est by comex on Sunday July 21, 2019 @04:33AM (#20490476)
"I see him swimming" is just a present participle, isn't it? Latin has those too and they're different. On the other hand, English has "I believe him to be swimming", and "I told him to swim", although the latter wouldn't be an accusative+infinitive in Latin.
Re:Carthago delenda est by romaaeterna on Sunday July 21, 2019 @12:01AM (#20489887)
> Cato's famous phrase, "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam", is feared for its grammar

Surely not

Re:Carthago delenda est by FabHK on Sunday July 21, 2019 @12:19AM (#20489918)
Not with your username, no :-)
Re:Carthago delenda est by contingencies on Sunday July 21, 2019 @12:00AM (#20489880)
TLDR: It's basically the faux-classicist version of banging on the table.