News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by poushkar on Thursday July 18, 2019 @01:43PM (#20472205)
I am selling my gaming desktop and considering buying something for work/study purposes only, preferably (I am 80% sure about it) a laptop.

Having a 2017 MBP at work, I am really disappointed in it's keyboard. To the point that I don't want to buy a Macbook for personal use.

Having used Macbook laptops for years, I was sure I will be able to quickly find some good alternatives. But after spending some time on Google and Youtube, I am really confused at this point. Let me explain why.

All I need is a laptop with around-the-house mobility to browse Web, to learn and experiment with different programming languages, and to work on some side projects (web/backend) of mine. No heavy video/photo editing, no more gaming.

I need it to be able to connect to an external screen without any weird dongles, to have a really good, comfortable keyboard and touchpad and not to cost a fortune.

It should run Linux smoothly, but maybe I could also use WLS on Windows as I don't have any strong preferences for UI because in the end it's only me, browser, terminal and an editor.

Now, it has confused me a lot that these simple requirements are very hard to satisfy, apparently!

What I've found so far:

1. Thinkpads X/T series Seem to be very solid machines, nice keyboard and specs. But in the new generation, Lenovo went the "anorexia" path which not only increases the price but also makes them less upgradable with the solidified RAM slot. Also, the line of T machines with the "s" suffix doesn't make sense to me as they are so similar to the X series. I don't get the point.

The price tag easily climbs up to almost 2k euro with i5, 16Gb RAM, 512Gb SSD and WQHD (2560 x 1440) display .

2. Surface Book 2 Looks super good, but as I've mentioned above I am still not sure about developing on Windows with the WSL and considering that realistically prices start from 2k for this laptop - it simply is too much for a machine that I am going to use at home for a few hours a day.

3. Dell XPS Seem to be solid machines, mostly. But same issues as with Thinkpads - everything is optimized for the size and weight, which makes it less upgradable and more expensive. And let me tell you that I owned Macbook Air for 5 years - I know that a low thickness is a very nice quality, but it's nowhere in the list of my priorities. I can easily trade it off for better specs.

Also, I keep reading about their coil whine problem.

Price gets easily close to 1,7k euro for the 4k version, which is much better than others on this list, but how good is Linux handling 4k if I decided to go with it?..

4. System76 Not expensive, a bit boring looking (not necessarily a problem but counts), and I am reading a lot about a not so good keyboard which collects dirt and is hard to clean. Don't know how true it is, though.

Battery life is also rumored to not to be good, even though it's not that important to me.

Not convinced by what I've learn about them so far.

5. Purism I really like the idea but at 1.5k euro with specs matching those of others mentioned above, I am actually not sure it's a good deal, considering the low battery life and an average display quality.

Is it?

It's probably not a full list but as you noticed, no laptop here costs less than 1,5k for very unimpressive specs as for today's standards. Maybe I am just spoiled but a Macbook Pro with such specs costs ~2k. And if the keyboard hasn't ruined it - it's a very high quality machine made of solid aluminum with 4k display and superb trackpad. So how can these alternatives cost almost the same with their 1080p screens?..

But it's ok, I would go with the price if it was a work laptop that I need to use for 8+ hours a day.

But as for a secondary machine, sitting at home for most of the time, I really don't want to spend this much!

If you had needs and struggles similar to mine, what have you gone with? And how happy are you with your choice?

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by nao360 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:11PM (#20473011)
I stopped buying new and started buying second hand about a year ago. Honestly, it's worked out just fine. I got a 6th gen i7 Lenovo T460S with 20Gb RAM, 512Gb M.2 and 1920 x 1080 display, all for about USD 700, about a year ago on eBay. It's still going strong today, and pretty much using it for the same purposes as you listed. It runs most modern linux distros flawlessly. WSL wasn't a great experience for me, but maybe things have improved since last year. Considering the specs of cutting edge vs., 1 or 2 generations ago, it's rarely ever more than 30% bigger/better/faster/brighter/etc. It just doesn't make sense to me to pay 100% to 200% more for a 30% improvement. The other huge plus (for me) is that I really don't care what happens to the laptop. I treat it with as much care as I treat my 2018 15"MBP, but at $700 (or $2 a day spread out over the last year), I really don't stress about it. Keyboard is THE BEST. Touchpad, on the other hand ... well, PC trackpads suck so very much, especially if you're used to Apple touchpads, which are just such a pleasure to use.

Do consider buying second hand, especially if it's a secondary machine.

Best of luck!

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by moioci on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:23PM (#20473104)
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by throwaway3627 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @05:11PM (#20473957)
Non-s T480 has dual batteries and a 10 hour real runtime.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by bitwize on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:41PM (#20473249)
Dell Precision 5xxx or 7xxx series. They're intended as desktop-replacement workstations, and as such are fucking beasts -- upgradeable to 64 GiB of RAM, full-sized keyboards with TrackPoint analogues, etc.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by 0x262d on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:19PM (#20473072)
I have a Surface Book (original). The first keyboard started failing for no discernible reason. The replacement keyboard, which also has a dedicated graphics card in it, disconnects from the computer randomly causing weird errors and OS crashes, so I have disabled the dedicated graphics card completely. If you scratch the outside you void your warranty, if you buy an expensive warranty it is expensive and still does not last very long.

2 years ago I thought it was an acceptable risk to buy a laptop with a cool gimmick hardware part... I wouldn't do it again.

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by sandreas on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:39PM (#20473230)
If it should be a new device, I would buy a Lenovo ThinkPad T490s, which is the most valuable Notebook i came across in the last 5 Years...

Thinkpad X1 Carbon is really high end, you won't need to spend this amount of money.

If you would like to save some money, you could either buy a used T4x0s (the lower the x, the lower the price but the older the device). More alternatives (not as good as the T4x0s Series):

Dell Latitude 7x90

HP EliteBook 840 Gx

HP ProBook 440 Gx

And check for educational discounts, if you are student, you'll probable save a lot of money.

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by schwartzworld on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:22PM (#20473094)
Honestly, a chromebook meets all your specs. They aren't really upgradeable beyond switching out the SSD for something bigger, but it's a perfectly cromulent choice for web/backend work. I used to do Rails 5 development on one, and it'll run a webpack server just fine.

Most Chromebooks can be booted with the distro of your choice, or you can use GalliumOS (optimized for chromebooks).

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by eeeeeeeeeeeee on Thursday July 18, 2019 @05:08PM (#20473932)
Which chrome book would you recommend? I want something portable, that I can run Linux on, but I don’t travel a ton so I don’t want to spend 1k.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by ja27 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:30PM (#20474573)
I've been really close to picking up an Intel-based Asus Chromebook Flip like the C434 (still on discount on Amazon today) or older C302 (under $300 used). If I didn't have a daily driver Macbook and a stack of other Chromebooks I'd be sold.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by fghtr on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:42PM (#20473261)
>almost the same with their 1080p screens?

Purism Librem 15v4 has a 4k screen.

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by poushkar on Thursday July 18, 2019 @04:00PM (#20473407)
You are right, I missed that. I only checked the 13" version.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by fghtr on Thursday July 18, 2019 @04:05PM (#20473442)
I suggest you consider buying their laptop, because they are the only company that has the goal to empower users with privacy and repairability (happy user).
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by throwaway3627 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @05:10PM (#20473948)
Thinkpad X is too much like Apple: impractical, excessively over-designed

Thinkpad T4X0 is the way to go for 13" (T440-T480; T490 is too Appleized also)

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by billconan on Thursday July 18, 2019 @04:00PM (#20473406)
we use razer blade at work with ubuntu 18, it is mostly ok. the battery life is a bit poor, and the trackpad is not so great, but it is the software to blame. it's upgradable, I have changed my ram from 16gb to 32gb.

https://www.razer.com/gaming-laptops/

Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by kofejnik on Thursday July 18, 2019 @03:31PM (#20473167)
a refurb 2015 macbook pro is the logical choice
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by ja27 on Thursday July 18, 2019 @06:13PM (#20474439)
I bought one last summer and upgraded the SSD (with a small adapter you can drop in most NVME M.2 SSDs). HDMI out, dual mini DP out, 2x USB 3, SD card slot (which I keep filled with a 400GB microSD in a little adapter for more storage). Retina. Old scissor switch keyboard. Should get another 2 or more macOS updates before being sunset.
Re:Ask HN: Which Laptop to Switch to from Macbook? by jmpman on Thursday July 18, 2019 @05:09PM (#20473941)
Just bought a used 2015 MacBook Pro 15”. Got a new battery for free due to the recall. Much better than anything else I could buy today, at 1/3 the cost.