News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by _iyig on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:12PM (#20421751)
What leads well-off Americans, whose safety and comfort is guaranteed by the constant efforts of law enforcement, to conclude that legal efforts to make law enforcement more efficient would make the world a worse place?
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by sswezey on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:20PM (#20421840)
Ethics. The amount and scope of information collected by things like Palantir Gotham is beyond invasive. The fact that a police officer can type in your name and know where you were driving is disconcerting. It is about as Big Brother as you can get and not the kind of world I would like to live in. This question is a slippery slope, where people become more and more accustomed to less privacy. If you think this is justifiable, I would highly suggest reading up about the the Stasi in East Germany or read 1984.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by zymhan on Friday July 12, 2019 @01:43PM (#20422646)
This exact issue was pointed out many times with automated license plate scanning came into existence. Is it really Palantir's fault for making software to aggregate the data? In my view it is our fault as citizens for allowing the government to collect such data in the first place.

Any other company with enough developers and data scientists can do what Palantir does. It's the massive amount of information their software uses that is the concern. But that data is collected by our government, and so we have legal recourse to it, either under current law or by passing new privacy laws.

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by mdorazio on Friday July 12, 2019 @04:01PM (#20423953)
That’s like asking if it’s really a murderer’s fault for pulling the trigger of a gun manufactured by someone else. Yes, it absolutely is their fault and no, “if they didn’t, someone else would” is not a valid moral excuse, ever.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by zymhan on Saturday July 13, 2019 @01:04PM (#20428993)
Who is the murderer in this analogy? To me it's the government misusing such a tool.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by mdorazio on Sunday July 14, 2019 @03:56PM (#20435602)
Palantir. The government is the gun manufacturer collecting all the needed data in various places.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by zymhan on Sunday July 14, 2019 @05:37PM (#20436251)
Why though? Palantir isn't the one using the tools for ill. The government is collecting the information and using it, possibly, to violate civil liberties and constitutional rights.

What can Palantir do to you?

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by ng12 on Friday July 12, 2019 @06:09PM (#20424976)
That's not what Palantir Gotham does. It's much closer to a sophisticated database and Tableau than some sort of big-brother invasive nightmare.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by imglorp on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:18PM (#20421815)
Paying attention to world history, for one.

For another, I've personally seen my work get turned from a human safety product in one market into a direct instrument of human oppression in another market. Lots of tech is just a tool, which can be used for good or evil. The thing is, once good people see what is possible, it provides them an easy route to doing evil which they might not have had before.

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by _iyig on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:39PM (#20422017)
I'm sorry to hear about your personal experience; I've been in a similar situation myself, related to voice assistant technology. However, I don't think either of our experiences necessarily imply that Palantir is evil. For example:

Typewriters can be turned to evil. IBM showed this to the world with their WWII-era Nazi collaboration. That doesn't mean the world should abandon typewriters, or that no self-respecting engineer should work on typewriters, or that they would be necessarily used for evil by the law-enforcement arm of a democratic society.

Should police agencies collect and store real-time location data for every private car? Probably not. I'd support legislation to restrict such practices. Should Palantir help police officers sort and present the data they collect, in general including not only LPR data but also criminal records, known associates, and vehicle information? I'd say yes.

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by anigbrowl on Friday July 12, 2019 @01:11PM (#20422323)
Typewriters can be turned to evil. IBM showed this to the world with their WWII-era Nazi collaboration. That doesn't mean the world should abandon typewriters, or that no self-respecting engineer should work on typewriters, or that they would be necessarily used for evil by the law-enforcement arm of a democratic society.

IBM's relationship with the Third Reich was not based on the mere supply of typewriters; such a suggestion reduces your credibility on this topic to zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by _iyig on Friday July 12, 2019 @01:30PM (#20422498)
>IBM's relationship with the Third Reich was not based on the mere supply of typewriters; such a suggestion reduces your credibility on this topic to zero.

"Punchcards can be turned to evil."

The specific type of dual-use technology is irrelevant to my point.

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by anigbrowl on Friday July 12, 2019 @06:28PM (#20425087)
Misrepresentation of facts corrodes discourse.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by gdubs on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:52PM (#20422151)
Defending American liberties often result in uncomfortable situations. For instance, defending free speech. To defend free speech, we often find ourselves having to seemingly defend truly awful things (depending on your personal ethics), because the principle of free speech overrides our feelings on a particular bit of speech; hate speech aside.

It’s not like the people against mass surveillance all want their kids to live in unsafe neighborhoods, or be blind to terrorist plots. But everything must be balanced within our set of liberties — and the American way of due process, etc, is purposefully skewed to protect individual rights and liberties.

This is why gun rights is such a hot button issue — some would like to see stricter regulations, because they feel unsafe sending their kids to school in a world of mass shootings. Others feel those restrictions place an undue burden on individual liberties afforded by the constitution.

When it comes to law enforcement, there is a lot of abuse of Power present in the system, which disproportionately affects people of color. Thus, there’s a very valid argument to be made that some of this tech is too dangerous in the hands of law enforcement, despite how much people of all political stripes want their families to be safe.

My aim here is to illuminate the differences in the arguments. I’m not trying to force my (admittedly liberal) point of view on the conversation, because HN isn’t really for politics. My goal here is to show how, despite politics, people can all desire safety for their family, and personal liberties, but have honest disagreements about the best way to achieve that.

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by bobthepanda on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:19PM (#20421827)
Law enforcement is not without bias, and just because they’re using discretion for you today doesn’t mean they won’t use it against you later.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by elbasti on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:28PM (#20421919)
Quite simply the belief that:

1) these efforts do not guarantee their safety and comfort (though others might, these don't) and

2) that even if they did, the ethical price of hunting down undocumented immigrants is inexcusably high. That in the same way that you wouldn't behead someone for speeding, you shouldn't separate families and cause people to live in the shadows simply for having the privilege of cleaning your hotel sheets.

Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by justforyou on Friday July 12, 2019 @02:58PM (#20423364)
Given the persistant patterns of unprofessional amd unethical behavior amongst law enforcement, it's understandable that people are against giving them access to more powerful tools that have great potential for abuse.
Re:Palantir’s User Manual for Cops by fromthestart on Friday July 12, 2019 @12:18PM (#20421811)
An understanding of the inevitability of abuse of unchecked power.