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Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Friday June 28, 2019 @11:19PM (#20310621)
Mars will never be able to be a "second home" for humanity: it lacks the ability to maintain an atmosphere that can support humans due to its weak magnetic field.

The bottom of the ocean would be far more habitable if we faced any type of extinction event.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by thirstywhimbrel on Saturday June 29, 2019 @07:06PM (#20315385)
> The bottom of the ocean would be far more habitable if we faced any type of extinction event.

Yeah, space has a coolness factor, and there are things about the origin of the universe we can't learn from the bottom of the ocean, but an underwater station is one of the most underrated projects humanity could pursue.

Oceans are phenomenal shields against radiation, extreme weather, or even the temporary combustion of the atmosphere, should things get that bad. The opportunity to learn about groups surviving in isolated habitats, or about megastructures that have to survive hostile external environments, could even provide really useful lessons for space.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by bjelkeman-again on Saturday June 29, 2019 @06:55AM (#20311879)
It may be possible to create a magnetic field to protect the atmosphere. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars#Protect...
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by CydeWeys on Saturday June 29, 2019 @09:33AM (#20312471)
The lack of a magnetic field ablates away an atmosphere only on cosmic timescales, not human ones. That seems like a problem that could be solved with the benefit of thousands more years of technological development. Never say never. Just a hundred years ago many people argued it was impossible to ever leave the atmosphere of this planet (And it wasn't ... using cannon. The rocket solved that problem).
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Saturday June 29, 2019 @01:38PM (#20313760)
It's a moral hazard to hold out hope for a "home away from home". Terraforming Mars is a moonshot.

If we ever find ourselves in a situation where we cannot survive on a planet where food literally grows out of the ground, with abundant liquid water and atmospheric oxygen at 1 atm, how on Earth would we survive on a planet that is devoid of life, has no liquid water, an atmosphere that's 1% the pressure of Earth's with no atmospheric oxygen, and little to no sources of energy?

Again, the bottom of the ocean is far more habitable than Mars, even if we experienced a similar extinction event similar to the one we experienced 65 million years ago.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by CydeWeys on Monday July 01, 2019 @07:52PM (#20330877)
That is a different point though.

Earth is habitable now. There are plenty of plausible non-anthropogenic disasters that may make that so not so. Some typical examples include megavolcano eruption, coronal mass ejection, and asteroid impact. It would be good to not have all of our eggs in one basket here on Earth.

And it's for exactly the same reason of having redundancy that it would be a good thing for Earth to continue to remain habitable, i.e. we should stop ruining the planet through climate change.

It's not a moral hazard at all; the two outlooks are congruous.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Wednesday July 03, 2019 @03:50PM (#20348042)
> megavolcano eruption, coronal mass ejection, and asteroid impact.

Even after any of those events, the bottom of the ocean would still be more habitable than Mars.

> It's not a moral hazard at all; the two outlooks are congruous.

The moral hazard is that we'll begin to think of Mars as a backup, when it isn't one at all. The Earth is very likely to be the one shot we have at a home. If we can't manage to make Earth habitable in the face of catastrophe, there is little hope to make a cold, barren rock that's millions of miles away habitable.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by stallmanite on Saturday June 29, 2019 @02:16PM (#20313956)
What about impacts such as the one that created the moon? We can argue about likelihood of it happening again but large enough impacts can liquify even crust on the opposite side of the planet. The bottom of the ocean won’t help at that point right?
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Wednesday July 03, 2019 @03:51PM (#20348061)
I mean, the likelihood is pretty important here. The likelihood of such a large impact was pretty high in the early solar system, and it was high for Mars, as well.
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by ourlordcaffeine on Saturday June 29, 2019 @07:34AM (#20311998)
Without the magnetic field, a thick atmosphere on Mars will still persist for tens of thousands of years.
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Saturday June 29, 2019 @01:30PM (#20313719)
It took billions of years for atmospheric oxygen to accumulate on Earth.
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by CydeWeys on Monday July 01, 2019 @07:59PM (#20330914)
Yeah, but most of that was waiting around for oxygen-releasing life to evolve.

We could create an oxygen atmosphere on Mars much more quickly than that, because we'd be sending life explicitly for that purpose that's ready now, and we'd also be importing gases and digging up in-situ resources and turning them into gas.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @12:57AM (#20332250)
> Yeah, but most of that was waiting around for oxygen-releasing life to evolve.

No, it wasn't. Photosynthesis that released O2 evolved relatively quickly, and was more efficient than other forms of photosynthesis. Then it took another billion years for oxygen to accumulate in the atmosphere. Mind you, we had an entire planet with oceans teeming with photosynthetic life. That will be next to impossible to replicate on Mars.

There are two oxygen sinks on Earth that reacted with oxygen released from photosynthesis: the first was the ocean, the other was minerals on land. This is the reason that it took so long for atmospheric oxygen to accumulate. Mars will have a lot of oxidizable minerals and compounds that will react with oxygen before it can accumulate in its atmosphere. Even then, it will escape into space without a sufficient magnetosphere to trap an atmosphere.

Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by xvilka on Friday June 28, 2019 @11:36PM (#20310676)
The bottom of European ocean?
Re:The International Space Station is growing mould, inside ... by fucking_tragedy on Saturday June 29, 2019 @12:13AM (#20310778)
The bottom of the ocean on Earth.