Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the lab and math Olympiad

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by nurettin on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:13PM (#20307232)

I think this is a positive thing. People who don't give up usually end up where they aren't supposed to, with peers who are simply better. Not to say they are totally useless, but they wouldn't have made the cut without their drive, which just means they pushed themselves above their limits to achieve something they shouldn't have. Now they are occupying space more deserving people could have been.

Is that the wise thing to do? Looking at you guys.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by deogeo on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:19PM (#20307304)

> pushed themselves above their limits to achieve something they shouldn't have

So, learning and practice? Or how do you distinguish between what someone should and shouldn't be able to achieve?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by imesh on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:15PM (#20307263)

I think there are very few subjects where natural talent will be more productive than drive and work ethic. Not sure how you could test or prove something like this though.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by SkyBelow on Friday June 28, 2019 @03:08PM (#20307826)

It would depend on how you define natural talent. A certain level of natural talent is absolutely necessary, but that level of natural talent is found in the majority of people. If you don't consider that natural talent and only consider some specific level above the baseline as qualifying, then the impact of natural talent verses hard work is much lower.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by rmah on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:23PM (#20307346)

Now they [those who kept competing] are occupying space more deserving people could have been.

Um, how are people who give up earlier more deserving?

My read (could be wrong) of what you wrote is that you may value potential/innate talent more than achievement/work. Which you are, of course, free to do. Personally, I value achievement/work over potential/innate talent.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by twic on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:29PM (#20307414)

I read a study a while ago (didn't pinboard it, sorry) by an engineering professional society on why women who do engineering degrees don't go on to work as engineers. For some, it was obstacles: sexist colleagues, unsuitable workplaces, etc. But for the majority, it was because they didn't want to be an engineer: they used their degree in engineering as a springboard into things like starting their own companies or being investment bankers.

Which rather implies that men who get degrees in engineering tend to carry on into working in engineering because they lack the imagination to do something else.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by deogeo on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:33PM (#20307446)

I cannot imagine a worse insult for 'imagination', than saying that it leads people away from engineering and towards investment banking.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by sterkekoffie on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:57PM (#20307713)

In my experience, men are more likely than women to choose degrees based on prestige and salary expectations. I'd say it's less about imagination after the fact and more about initial motivation.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by SkyBelow on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:33PM (#20307444)

>because they lack the imagination to do something else

What about the option that they really want to do engineering.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by xj9 on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:46PM (#20307600)

nobody enjoys STEM work, people are in it for the money.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by SkyBelow on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:56PM (#20307703)

I would have to very much disagree. There are parts I do not enjoy but those are more office related regardless if the work is STEM or not. I do like the money, but I do STEM stuff for fun and many my side projects eat money, not produce it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by krageon on Wednesday July 03, 2019 @09:00AM (#20343904)

Are you serious? I have long ago accepted that some people just like different things from me, but I still don't really understand how you couldn't love STEM work.

There are other fields which are also fun (obviously), but STEM has all the really cool puzzles and weird edge cases that a certain type of personality really likes.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by andreilys on Friday June 28, 2019 @03:03PM (#20307772)

I also enjoy STEM work and would continue to do it even if it was low-paying.

Also I get a ton of joy from STEM-based personal projects that wouldn't be possible if I didn't level up my skills through work and play

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by malandrew on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:52PM (#20307661)

I enjoy STEM work. Way more satisfying that most endeavors.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by jandrewrogers on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:29PM (#20307409)

No one becomes a top performer at anything without relentlessly pushing themselves outside their comfort zone and failing frequently.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by marcescence on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:23PM (#20307343)

> end up where they aren't supposed to

Who decides where someone is "supposed to" end up?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by GuiA on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:20PM (#20307315)

Your reasoning assumes that there is a binary fitness function (either you are fit for the role or you aren’t), which remains constant over time, which can be overridden through not giving up.

That all seems very flawed and reductionist.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by malandrew on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:51PM (#20307652)

It's not always the case that there is limited room at the top of some endeavor. It is possible to grow the size of the pie in most cases.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by saagarjha on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:16PM (#20307266)

I like being around people who are better than me :(

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by luckydata on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:16PM (#20307271)

Sounds like the mentality of a loser. Nobody that has ever done anything meaningful in their lives think this way.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by dllthomas on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:18PM (#20307297)

Why isn't drive itself a part of who deserves what?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by nurettin on Friday June 28, 2019 @02:36PM (#20307483)

it is, the drive to make it to finals and win is valuable, the drive to fail and try again, is it wise is what I am asking for the given reasons above.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by dllthomas on Friday June 28, 2019 @05:56PM (#20309089)

You said "Now they are occupying space more deserving people could have been." If drive is itself deserving, what makes those other people "more deserving"?

Is your claim simply that we overweight it?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by nurettin on Sunday June 30, 2019 @05:21AM (#20317235)

People occupying space they shouldn't is a real thing. Overriding elimination processes by trying again and again, is that wise?

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:Do Women Give Up Competing More Easily? Evidence from the... by dllthomas on Tuesday July 02, 2019 @07:39PM (#20340359)

That doesn't address my question.

[ Parent | on HN ]