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Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by reustle on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @07:05PM (#20290196)
This article is surprisingly short. How many bats are being killed? Are birds having similar issues? Will it help them too? Come on, Bloomberg.
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by grawprog on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @07:39PM (#20290446)
https://www.usgs.gov/faqs/how-are-bats-affected-wind-turbine...

They're pretty deadly, and it's not collisions that kill them. It's the pressure differential caused by them. It's too hard on their lungs and makes them rupture. It's less deadly to birds in that way, their respiratory system tends to be sturdier.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by sgorto on Thursday June 27, 2019 @10:40AM (#20294792)
So one of the major bats being affected by wind energy in the south are Hoary bats. While they aren't currently endangered, they are very elusive and could become endangered if current mortality rates continue.

"The hoary bat population could decline by as much as 90% in the next 50 years if the initial population size is near 2.5 million bats and annual population growth rate is similar to rates estimated for other bat species (λ = 1.01)" Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00063...

In Hawaii, there is a subspecies of the Hoary bat that is endangered and primarily threatened by wind turbines. There are also studies happening out there on wind turbines (I applied to work for the study like a year ago, I don't think BCI will be publishing anything any time soon). https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/wildlife/files/2018/07/Bat-White-Pap... https://www.nrgsystems.com/news-media/nrg-systems-announces-...

RE this study - I believe this is part of the work being done by Dr. Sara Weaver at Texas State. I don't know that she's published much on it yet, it's been very hush-hush because of the huge implications it could have if successful. The NRG tech being used is mentioned in the Texas State article below. https://psmag.com/environment/jamming-echolocation-could-hel... https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sara_Weaver4 https://news.txstate.edu/research-and-innovation/2018/bat-de...

That being said, wind energy is like... maybe #2 or #3 threat to bats right now. The biggest one being a disease called white-nose syndrome that is absolutely devastating hibernating bats.

USFS website on WNS: https://www.whitenosesyndrome.org/

A third major danger to bats is human persecution. People either are scared of bats, or hunt them for food. In places like Australia, bats are sometimes seen as a nuisance where the congregate in large numbers and poop. Bat Conservation International has a lot of articles and social media messages talking about how bats are threatened http://www.batcon.org/why-bats/bats-are/bats-are-threatened

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by Nasrudith on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:31AM (#20294167)
That is kind of ironic - even knowing that durability isn't monolithic and based off of different things. Birds known for coal mine canaries have the more durable lungs.
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by PhasmaFelis on Thursday June 27, 2019 @10:32AM (#20294698)
Indeed! Birds in general have infamously sensitive lungs, apparently because their respiratory system is a one-way loop instead of an in-and-out piston. They can exhale one breath at the same time that another is passing through the lungs. It's amazingly efficient, serving the high oxygen and cooling needs of active flight, but it's far more susceptible to airborne pollutants of all kinds.

But, apparently, sensitivity to pollutants is unrelated to sensitivity to pressure.

Biology is fascinating.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by gameswithgo on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @08:02PM (#20290564)
wind turbines do kill some birds. they are not a first or even second order bird killer though. and newer wind farms pose less of a threat for various reasons. size, etc.

https://images.app.goo.gl/SABJs5GkQsGFJC1d7

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by eikenberry on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @08:37PM (#20290751)
Anyone know of similar stats on bat deaths?
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by briandear on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @10:01PM (#20291132)
Of course they aren’t a first order bird killer because there aren’t that many turbines compared to the first order bird killers. Nuclear power is far more “green” than solar and wind, but for some reason, environmentalists are stuck in wind and solar as saviors. In California, they just declared that hydro doesn’t count as “renewable,” despite it being exactly that. The push for wind and solar is political more than practical. We already have an incredibly green, practically limitless energy technology already available, it’s called nuclear, but instead we want to debate sticking windmills on every patch of ground and covering everything with inefficient solar panels.
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by greglindahl on Thursday June 27, 2019 @12:29AM (#20291765)
If 100% of US power was wind, turbines would still not be the #1 bird killer.

Can you point out the new hydro plants that we can build?

As a California resident, I'm happy that the state isn't spending extra to buy nuclear.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by petre on Thursday June 27, 2019 @01:41AM (#20292005)
At least California residents are lucky enough to benefit from vast geothermal resources, which could be used for base load instead of nuclear. Hydropower utilities are mostly peaker plants.
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by shaki-dora on Thursday June 27, 2019 @02:12AM (#20292129)
> The push for wind and solar is political more than practical.

It's fascinating how you're accusing others to be emotional instead of rational, while answering a post providing data for one specific question regarding wind power with an unspecific rant.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by 7952 on Thursday June 27, 2019 @12:59PM (#20296280)
Imagine if nuclear killed a similar number of birds and bats. Would you suddenly say that it wasn't green enough? Of course not, that would be stupid. Wind and solar are green enough. The environmental damage caused by either source is trivially small.

Also, any complex project will be subject to politics. That is just reality. If you want to defeat climate change (a political objective) you have to put forward projects that will be approved by government.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by mschuster91 on Thursday June 27, 2019 @08:16AM (#20293726)
Nuclear has problems which humanity hasn't found an answer yet:

1) what to do with the waste that has to be kept safe for thousands of years, war-, theft- and natural-disaster-proof? Recycling or breeding can be done but nowhere near the volume that is required. For early attempts at long term storage we have problems getting the waste out of there.

2) how to operate nuclear power in a capitalist society safely? Operators will always have the incentive to cut corners and bypass regulations for profit, leading to security issues and accidents. Hell even communism has failed there, e.g. in Chernobyl or that lake (?) where they dumped their old submarines.

3) how to make a reactor disaster-proof? This includes geology (earthquakes like in Japan), water, fire, terrorism, operator negligence, ...

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by imtringued on Thursday June 27, 2019 @08:09AM (#20293684)
Nuclear power still requires water as coolant so it's environmental impact is still as bad for the local fish as a coal plant.
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by Nasrudith on Thursday June 27, 2019 @09:42AM (#20294235)
I don't see how that follows - even with lacking care to mix exhaust hot water with cold to make it warm. That would at worst cause localized fish kills and algae blooms as opposed to lasting damage.

Nuclear plants are usually located with abundant water for cooling and contamination is more of a concern than evaporation.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by Gibbon1 on Thursday June 27, 2019 @07:46PM (#20300080)
Read someone mention that some reactors in France are limited by river temperatures in the summer. Or else they'll start cooking fish.

Me I think we're in the harm reduction phase of industrial civilization. Nothing we do isn't going to have some negative impact.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by flukus on Thursday June 27, 2019 @03:24AM (#20292379)
How many birds, bats and insect that they feed on are killed (or never get to live) by uranium mining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ranger_3_open_pit.jpg ?
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by dTal on Thursday June 27, 2019 @06:25AM (#20293159)
Per watt, I'm willing to bet (without evidence) that the ratio is quite favorable. Yeah the open pit looks bad, but uranium has a simply stupendous amount of energy. And the damage is well localized (while renewables tend to need a lot of area).
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by DonHopkins on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @07:37PM (#20290425)
>How many bats are being killed?

>Are birds having similar issues?

>Will it help them too?

To find out, tune in tomorrow.

Same bat time.

Same bat channel.

Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by briandear on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @07:27PM (#20290358)
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by gameswithgo on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @08:01PM (#20290560)
Re:Bat-Killing Wind Turbines Outfitted with Systems to Stop ... by briandear on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @09:54PM (#20291095)
The linked chart doesn’t dispute the damage from wind turbines. However, there is also a relatively low penetration of wind turbines compared to the number of power lines, windows and cats. It would follow that a rapid expansion of wind turbines would result in a dramatic increase in bird deaths. Suggesting that turbines don’t kill as much as windows is a straw man: nobody is claiming that turbines are the leading cause of bird deaths, however, they are still significant and, with an increase of turbines, you will absolutely have an increase in bird mortality. Additionally, endangered birds such as bald eagles are rarely getting eaten by housecats or crashing into windows, however, they are being killed by windmills.

The Audubon Society, a group that most assuredly has more experience with all things birds are certainly more credible than a random google image search in terms of the impact of turbines on birds.

https://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe...