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Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by Amezarak on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:18PM (#20275732)
The cruel reality appears to be that you ration health care without reducing spending, because medical administration and bureaucratic costs eat the savings and more.

Untying insurance from employment is a great idea, but it won't solve this. With HDHPs being so common the 'disconnect' between providers and patients is already not a real thing. Neither will single payer fix the underlying problem, although at least individuals will be better off.

At any rate, entrusting laymen to understand when they should and should not seek emergency medical attention means that people will die through entirely preventable causes in an attempt to ration their health care spending. Your cure sounds worse than the disease.

There are no effective market forces you can 'unleash' in the case of health care. It wouldn't matter if you removed all government regulation and subsidies tomorrow. Even in a world where it all somehow works out, do you want medical providers in a race to the bottom? In the absence of meaningful quality of care information (impossible), consumers are incredibly sensitive to one thing: price. What you will end up with is cheap(ish) providers providing incredibly substandard care by cutting corners and killing people.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by ultrarunner on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:28PM (#20275848)
I seem to remember a comment on here complaining about $30 pacifiers. Why do pacifiers cost $30 when they’re post paid from a hospital and not when they’re bought literally anywhere else if not for the presence of market forces? I can assure you this effect is not just limited to pacifiers.
Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by conanbatt on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:57PM (#20276251)
> With HDHPs being so common the 'disconnect' between providers and patients is already not a real thing.

Long way to go for HDHP to take over the market. But its definitely the way to go. It will however attack mostly the primary care market, not the hospitals which are 40% of the national health spending.

> At any rate, entrusting laymen to understand when they should and should not seek emergency medical attention means that people will die through entirely preventable causes in an attempt to ration their health care spending. Your cure sounds worse than the disease.

Not my "cure" thats the economic reality. Unfettered access to healthcare will give you skyrocketing costs. You cant complain about both at the same time, they are a trade-off. I do think that cost is the single most important thing to attack, and the policies to do so are very easy to enact. They are just very unpopular, because the democratic party wants to increase the state, not make healthcare cheaper, and because republicas have their head up their ass on this topic for reasons I dont understand.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by Amezarak on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @01:23PM (#20276568)
According to Kaiser, HDHPs are the second most common health insurance plan and account for 28% of all insurance plans.

> Not my "cure" thats the economic reality. Unfettered access to healthcare will give you skyrocketing costs. You cant complain about both at the same time, they are a trade-off.

Yes, if the problem is skyrocketing demand. But it isn't. Yes, if we waved a magic wand and provided unlimited free access to medical care, demand would rise somewhat. But demand is not the reason for the current high prices, and it's not the reason costs are outpacing inflation. Medical care in the US is much more expensive than in comparable countries, but demand is not appreciably different.

As long as people keep looking at this through a "market" lens, or through a "just make it single payer" lens, the problem will never be solved. The fundamental problem isn't that demand is too high. The problem is cost disease, the root of which consists of dozens of different factors. This is a decent article, albeit one that barely scratches the surface.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/02/09/considerations-on-cost...

Look at those graphs! It's mindblowing! Medical costs have increased ten times more than inflation, while doctor and nurse salaries were flat (actually worse, since now their salary goes to paying off educational debt) over the same time period. If there's a demand problem, why aren't salaries of medical professionals rising faster than inflation?

Lastly, I think most people would disagree that cutting costs is the most important thing. Going bankrupt is better than dying of pneumonia because you were worried about wasting money on a doctor visit.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by conanbatt on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @02:00PM (#20276976)
> As long as people keep looking at this through a "market" lens, or through a "just make it single payer" lens, the problem will never be solved

There is definitely a sort of impasse on both ideological positions. The forces that be for some reason have not agreed to test out their ideas: a public option and deregulation simultaneously. But neither policy is popular in neither party.

I disagree with your diagnosis, but I'm willing to do a policy that satisfies both your ideas and mine. Support a public option that will not have the issues you mention, and let me have my unlicensed, foreign, cash-pay, non-subsidized doctors, non-FDA meds and malpractice waivers.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by mempko on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @03:32PM (#20277973)
Medicare for All will solve a lot of these issues. Look at the healthcare prices in Japan, which has a single payer system. Insanely cheap, high quality, and more doctors per capita than the USA.

The other part that someone like Sanders is pushing is tuition-free colleges. If doctors aren't burdened with half a million in student debt, maybe we can get cheaper care.

You combine both programs and you get a real win.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by Amezarak on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @05:10PM (#20278982)
Medicare for All would help individuals, but does too little to stop rising costs - you get the benefit of government negotiation and annihilate insurance overhead, but it’s not enough. You help people in the short term, but ultimately you only delay the day of reckoning.

I already posted a link showing doctor and nurse compensation have been flat in the same time period that medical costs increased 10x faster than inflation. While free university might be a good idea for other reasons, this isn’t it.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by conanbatt on Wednesday June 26, 2019 @08:02AM (#20284088)
> you get the benefit of government negotiation and annihilate insurance overhead

You don't have the benefit of government negotiation today and you cant seriously say that the government runs without overhead.

Re:Trump Signs Executive Order Compelling Disclosure of Pric... by 0815test on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:31PM (#20275897)
> In the absence of meaningful quality of care information

Except that quality information gets provided quite satisfactorily in plenty of industries, even ones that might appear otherwise quite opaque. Sure, sometimes it is done in distorted and counterintuitive ways (many marketing practices, including many kinds of advertising, are ultimately reputational games that are designed to signal quality), but meaningful info is far from "absent"!