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Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by lvh on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @09:31AM (#20273944)
Yes, 13.8Gy is the approximate age of the universe and yes the researchers used that number. But it's not like they made this up ("phony", as you put it)!

Turns out the biggest decay factor is nanograting and the biggest contributing physical quantity is temperature. They plotted what decay would look like on an Arrhenius plot. They both computed estimates and measured to confirm: the measurements are quite accurate. The specific claim is that they computed that it would last 13.8Gy at a some reasonably high temperature (462K). They could've picked any other point on the time/temp scale, like "here's how long it would last at room temperature" or "here's how hot you could store it if you only cared about it for a billion years".

They did not, however, simply make up a number with no justification, let alone commit straight-up academic fraud, as you're implying.

The paper is here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/297892219_Eternal_5....

Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by gnode on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @09:41AM (#20274032)
I don't think they meant it was fraud, just that it's sensationalist drivel. It's choosing a way to interpret results for the sake of sounding impressive, rather than improving understanding.

Choosing a temperature in order to say "this will last as long as the universe's current age", or finding ways to count extra dimensions is the behaviour of marketeers, not academics.

Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by lvh on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @09:43AM (#20274059)
And yet, I pulled those claims out of the paper, which I linked. Are you suggesting Peter G. Kazansky, a research professor with over two decades of experience in optics, does not count as an academic? Or are you saying the paper doesn't make those claims? Or are you saying the paper also isn't a real academic paper and just marketeer noise?

(I'm not quoting the other authors, who are of course also distinguished scholars :-))

Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by sombremesa on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:04AM (#20274265)
The complaint here appears specifically to be a lamentation that academics are behaving this way, so in attempting to prove their priors you're only strengthening the argument. Your tone seems to be adversarial, so I'm guessing that's not your goal...
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by lvh on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:11AM (#20274345)
"The paper isn't a real academic paper and itself also marketeer noise" is one of the options I've outlined as a debate position. But let's be clear: we started by calling research "phony" over something that would've been trivially clarified by reading a short paper. In order to even get to that point, I have to acknowledge that maybe you get to call research "phony" without seriously implying fraud. I have a hard time taking that as a serious, bona-fide argument.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by airesearcher on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:34PM (#20275931)
There are actual papers. Press releases and popularizations are not the same thing. If you look you can find the actual papers.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by lvh on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:38PM (#20276001)
It appears you’re agreeing with me? I’m suggesting the confusion would have been alleviated by reading the actual paper.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by tudelo on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:12AM (#20274356)
While his tone seems a bit adversarial, at least he is providing relevant information to the topic instead of a generic rant. I greatly prefer the former.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by daveFNbuck on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:13AM (#20274366)
The temperature at which it will last the universe's current age is 462K. This is 189 Celcius, or 372 Fahrenheit. They didn't choose an unreasonably low temperature to say it'll last the universe's age. They picked a temperature to say it'll last the universe's age even if you crank up the heat to an absurd degree. They could have given a much larger timespan if they stuck to room temperature.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by daenz on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:22AM (#20274462)
"Room temperature" is a pretty meaningful rough measurement for storage of anything.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by gnode on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @11:26AM (#20275183)
But the temperature was 462K (about 189C), far beyond room temperature, or what we'd expect to store data at. This is just the temperature at which the expected lifetime is the age of the universe, which has no bearing on the technology itself.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by sp332 on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:29AM (#20274544)
13.8 Gy is the age of the universe so far, in the past. Completely irrelevant to how long the discs will last starting from now.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by lvh on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @10:35AM (#20274603)
What would be a good number of years to use? "Literally as old as the Universe is now" seems like as close a number as you can use to put timespans that big into _some_ sort of perspective.
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by sp332 on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @11:11AM (#20275020)
How about an actual estimate? If it's 100 billion years that would be an even cooler number to throw around. 7 times the age of the universe!

A more useful number would be MTBF or a decay rate.

Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by lvh on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:25PM (#20275826)
But the point is that decay rate is almost entirely a function of temperature, so you have to pick... something. Unless you feel like log/log years/thermodynamic Beta is a better way to communicate decay than “it lasts as long as the universe has been around”. (Which they do! In the paper! Just not in the summary because nobody has a feel for what log/log beta/time is.)
Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by hilbert42 on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @02:05PM (#20277027)
"They did not, however, simply make up a number with no justification..."

Right, the concept of storing data in crystalline like structures is not new and there's good technical reasons to believe the technology is a goer. (See my more general comment hereunder giving reasons.)

BTW, this is a truly exciting development, let's hope the practical implementation doesn't stall.

Re:Glass discs that can store 360TB and remain intact for bi... by airesearcher on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @12:40PM (#20276027)
One of these is now orbiting the Sun for 30 million years in Elon Musk’s Tesla - see www.archmission.org