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Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by jandrese on Thursday June 20, 2019 @03:49PM (#20236642)
> over the long term on average home prices don't increase.

I assume you mean adjusted for inflation here? Even then that hasn't been true.

The problem with renting is that you're still paying the mortgage, only in the renting case you're also paying the middleman who then pays the mortgage. This is why rent per month is higher than mortgage per month for the same house. So the returns from that downpayment you instead invested need to make up for the monthly loss in rent, plus the lack of an asset at the end of the process.

It's not a small difference either. My current mortgage is $1250/month for a single family home. 13 years ago when I was renting the rates started at $1600/month for a tiny studio apartment unless you were willing to commute an hour each way. Rents have gone up in the meantime. You need to be making some baller returns on your downpayment if you're going to beat that.

This comparison isn't entirely fair because the rental unit also included maintenance and groundskeeping. In my house I have to do all that work myself or hire someone. However, in the rental unit I had to pay for the utilities. This is a problem because the landlord will never replace something like an AC unit or a refrigerator with anything but the absolute cheapest and most expensive to run model. In my house when I replace it I have the option of buying the high efficiency model and enjoying the cost savings over the life of the unit. Plus when something breaks in my home I just fix it or go out immediately and hire someone to fix it. In the apartment you have to contact the landlord who then sits on it for two weeks before contacting his maintenance guy who only comes by once every couple of weeks to look at it and then order the part so maybe he can fix it on his next visit. In the meantime I'm freezing my ass off with no heat for all of January. I don't miss renting at all.

Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by refurb on Thursday June 20, 2019 @04:22PM (#20236943)
The problem with renting is that you're still paying the mortgage, only in the renting case you're also paying the middleman who then pays the mortgage. This is why rent per month is higher than mortgage per month for the same house.

That statement is very location specific.[1] In SF, it's cheaper to rent than to buy (on a monthly basis) and because of rent control, it's often cheaper to rent versus buy over your lifetime.

In SF, it costs ~$1,000 to rent what would cost $600,000 to buy. In Cleveland, it cost ~$1,000 to rent what would cost $100,000 to buy.

Obviously very different outcomes if you rent versus buy in each city.

https://smartasset.com/mortgage/price-to-rent-ratio-in-us-ci...

Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by jandrese on Thursday June 20, 2019 @07:04PM (#20238303)
Well yes, Prop 13 continues to be a huge mistake.
Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by ska on Thursday June 20, 2019 @04:00PM (#20236743)
That analysis is overly simplified for a number of reasons, two of the big ones are 1) You often aren't comparing the same properties and 2) while it's true that you are potentially indirectly paying a mortgage, it doesn't have the same terms as what you could negotiate yourself for buying the same property today.

These and other reasons contribute to why rental costs and TCO for residential properties are not in lock-step.

So the real answer is (unsurprisingly) "it depends". Sometimes you are better off financially to rent, sometimes to buy - very dependent on location, dwelling needs, frequency of moving, etc. In the USA the balance is often tipped towards buying by tax incentives, which are politically if not economically popular.

Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by rifung on Thursday June 20, 2019 @04:09PM (#20236819)
> I assume you mean adjusted for inflation here? Even then that hasn't been true.

I used the numbers from here: https://economics.harvard.edu/files/economics/files/ms28533....

Specifically in section IIIA

"The stylized fact from the studies on long-run housing capital appreciation is that over long horizons, house prices only grow a little faster than the consumer price index"

> The problem with renting is that you're still paying the mortgage, only in the renting case you're also paying the middleman who then pays the mortgage. This is why rent per month is higher than mortgage per month for the same house. So the returns from that downpayment you instead invested need to make up for the monthly loss in rent, plus the lack of an asset at the end of the process.

Right, but the down payment ends up compounding to greater than the value of the entire home at the end of the 30 years and the difference is significant enough to cover (rent - mortgage)

> This comparison isn't entirely fair because the rental unit also included maintenance and groundskeeping. In my house I have to do all that work myself or hire someone. However, in the rental unit I had to pay for the utilities. This is a problem because the landlord will never replace something like an AC unit or a refrigerator with anything but the absolute cheapest and most expensive to run model. In my house when I replace it I have the option of buying the high efficiency model and enjoying the cost savings over the life of the unit. Plus when something breaks in my home I just fix it or go out immediately and hire someone to fix it. In the apartment you have to contact the landlord who then sits on it for two weeks before contacting his maintenance guy who only comes by once every couple of weeks to look at it and then order the part so maybe he can fix it on his next visit. In the meantime I'm freezing my ass off with no heat for all of January. I don't miss renting at all.

I completely agree. The thing I actually really wanted to buy a house because I want a grand piano and to not have to worry about moving it. Sadly at least from my own calculations I just can't justify it.

Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by secabeen on Thursday June 20, 2019 @05:06PM (#20237396)
The thing that pushed me over the top on renting was purchasing a house with an accessory dwelling that we could rent. Houses with rentable space often don't sell for that much more than those that don't have said space, but they come with an income stream.
Re:A Growing Problem in Real Estate: Too Many Too Big Houses by rifung on Thursday June 20, 2019 @06:42PM (#20238126)
That's an excellent point. Like I said in my original comment, it is comparable if you buy a place outright. I suspect if you are able to both extract rent while also save on your own rent, that may be the best of both worlds.

Perhaps I should take your idea and use it myself =D