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Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by mey on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @02:42AM (#20210267)
My brief understanding. If you have auto login enabled, it is possible to gain access to an account secrets stored in a security store. That sounds bad, but with auto login you are already unlocking an account. No CVE posted. No description of mitigation. A hostile view of Microsoft in closing remarks.

Edit: as has been pointed out, this could be triggered by Windows update with a setting enabled https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027599/windows-10-...

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by 9935c101ab17a66 on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @03:26AM (#20210424)
You only have to make it as far as the fourth section to see that this doesn't apply only to accounts with auto login enabled.

I also don't think it's fair to say there isn't a description of mitigation. They outline exactly how this could be mitigated: microsoft should disable lock screen applications.

this quote from the article really distills what this is so bad:

> Unlike the first implementation, the new vulnerability is not a developer mistake, but a forced compromise of security and usability, so to speak.

If microsoft didn't have a secure way of implementing lockscreen applications, they shouldn't have implemented it at all.

Edit: to clarify, the solution isn't even that drastic — simply don't enable lock screen notifications until the user is logged in. It's pretty funny that this vulnerability is partially a side effect of microsoft attempting to mitigate the intrusiveness of their aggressive auto update policies.

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by icebraining on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @02:58AM (#20210328)
This is what I first thought, but here the auto-login is not enabled by the user, but configured automatically by Windows Update so that it automatically logs in the previous user (and immediately locks the session) after a reboot for installing updates, so that the lock screen apps work.

For the user, everything seems fine: the account is locked after reboot, not auto-logged-in. But the credentials are still readable on the disk.

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by mey on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @03:44AM (#20210508)
You are correct about auto-login https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4027599/windows-10-...

Per https://vztekoverflow.com/2018/07/31/tbal-dpapi-backdoor/ After the post reboot "login" happens to the last user, the credential is removed from the disk (registry) but will stay in memory. To exploit this, you would need to find a hole in the lock screen, use an admin account to dump memory, or have physical access to the drive before boot that doesn't have bitlocker.

Is there an attack vector that doesn't require privileged access or physical access to the machine without bitlocker/tpm?

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @04:23AM (#20210669)
> Is there an attack vector that doesn't require privileged access or physical access to the machine without bitlocker/tpm?

In the past, RDMA over Firewire used to be such an attack vector, see the Inception tool that could unlock Windows machines reliably. Presently, there seem to be openly described solutions for using an FPGA hooked up to the TPM to grab keys from the wire. Both types of attacks require physical access and somewhat specialized tools, but AFAIK both work even when Bitlocker and TPM is present.

I don't understand why anyone who actually cares about security uses Bitlocker, and not one of the systems that ask for a password before booting Windows. The latter reduces the attack surface by such a large amount, it's a no-brainer.

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by shawnz on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @05:08AM (#20210836)
> I don't understand why anyone who actually cares about security uses Bitlocker, and not one of the systems that ask for a password before booting Windows.

Bitlocker also supports using a password at boot.

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by sterlind on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @04:38AM (#20210721)
If I'm understanding correctly, did the RDMA attack work because it was able to probe arbitrary memory-mapped registers on request?

And for the TPM attack, is the FPGA able to initiate it? or would this have to be some kind of hardware implant? the latter isn't a big deal - plenty of ways to bug a machine given invasive physical access - the former would be a serious TPM breach akin to GrayKey.

also I'm a little clueless, but my secure laptop has a Bitlocker boot password, with autologin disabled even during updates iirc. does that not mitigate?

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by semi-extrinsic on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @04:45AM (#20210743)
I think if you have Bitlocker set up with a boot password, and you are careful to shut down when you're not using the computer, then you're probably fine. But in my experience most people use Bitlocker just with the Windows login prompt.

As I understand it, the FPGA is able to initiate the TPM key extraction, yes. So it's not a sniffer that has to wait for the user to input the password.

https://pulsesecurity.co.nz/articles/TPM-sniffing

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by lostmsu on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @02:49AM (#20210292)
Probably because this is not a security issue, as you have to be an administrator on the machine to be able to do that.
Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by 9935c101ab17a66 on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @03:27AM (#20210432)
What? An admin to do what? Also, this doesn't apply to only users with autologin enabled.
Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by lostmsu on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @03:49AM (#20210518)
To read the credential file from other user's profile.

As somebody shown below, that could be done by anyone with physical access, but only if full-disk encryption is off.

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by shawnz on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @04:26AM (#20210678)
Right, but without this feature, you could NOT perform that attack even with physical access and no FDE.

Now that this feature exists, DPAPI is essentially bypassed and must be supplanted with FDE.

Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by kabwj on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @04:03AM (#20210585)
I’d argue FDE is off for 99.9% of users of windows
Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by anieberry on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @05:05AM (#20210814)
Not anymore, most store bought laptops will have bitlocker enabled and all enterprise laptops will probably be using bitlocker too.
Re:DPAPI security flaw in Windows 10 by tracker1 on Tuesday June 18, 2019 @01:44PM (#20215920)
Bitlocker isn't even an option for Home versions of Windows... Which most store-bought laptops use.