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Re:Italy proposes tax on savings hidden in safety deposit boxes by leetcrew on Friday June 14, 2019 @10:12AM (#20183148)
what is desired by a majority/plurality of citizens is pretty much orthogonal to justice.
Re:Italy proposes tax on savings hidden in safety deposit boxes by coldtea on Friday June 14, 2019 @11:48AM (#20183922)
Actually it's the very definition of justice.

That's how justice was developed and has always worked since day one.

Aside from hearing God voices, we don't have any other.

It's just that in our days we pretend that we have some "specialists" discussing the finer points.

But something without the people behind it it's not justice, just like something without a power to enforce it it's not law.

When somebody says "What the majority considers justice is not justice" they really only say "My arbitrary idea of justice is better than other people's".

As a cultural thing, justice is only what the culture (shaped by the people) considers as such.

(One could only argue about what's more useful (utilitarianism) but that also needs a commonly defined desired outcome and a somewhat agreed upon utility function).

Re:Italy proposes tax on savings hidden in safety deposit boxes by leetcrew on Friday June 14, 2019 @12:33PM (#20184310)
I'm not going to claim that I have a better definition for justice, but aggregate opinion seems like an especially poor one. if the majority ethnic group in some country democratically votes to exterminate some minority group, is it just? I could more easily accept the claim that "justice" doesn't exist than that I would be forced to recognize positively that a genocide was just.
Re:Italy proposes tax on savings hidden in safety deposit boxes by coldtea on Saturday June 15, 2019 @01:04PM (#20190888)
>If the majority ethnic group in some country democratically votes to exterminate some minority group, is it just?

For them it is. In Germany during the war what they did wasn't considered unjust (like in the South during legal slavery). And if the majority on earth agreed, it would be considered a-ok (like before countries started abolishing slavery, when it was just a normal thing for most peoples all over the world).

We do have some escape hatches from "it's just what most say it is", but those are based on religious and cultural ideas (including "scientific" conceptions of justice in the latter camp).

I think in the end: justice as an operative thing is what most people say it is (it can't be anything else). But there's also some common shared sense of justice, not well defined and not easily enforceable at all cases (e.g. one couldn't enforce it in WWII Germany), but which contains a core of the only universal notion of justice (don't cause harm without reason, don't kill, don't steal, etc).