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Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:03AM (#20164095)
Well that tells me two things.

- if when you looked at the job req and it said we were looking for C#/Java/Python/JavaScript developers and you wrote it in Haskell, that’s one signal that you probably won’t produce solutions that meet the customer’s need.

- if we are hiring Haskell developers and I can’t understand the code that means you write unmaintainable, over architected code and that you would still be a net negative for the company.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by bitL on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:09AM (#20164141)
You didn't get it, linguistic gymnastics here is unnecessary. I could do the same in a language of your choice. But testing me with FizzBuzz without looking at my CV at all is putting you into "garbage employer" category and I wouldn't want to waste time with you. Did you get 5th grader questions on your university exams as well?
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by jasonlotito on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:17AM (#20164214)
> But testing me with FizzBuzz without looking at my CV at all is putting you into "garbage employer" category and I wouldn't want to waste time with you.

This would concern me that you don't validate your input. Just because the contract says something doesn't mean that's what you are getting. Trust, but verify. I trust that your CV is accurate, so I'm giving you a test that won't take up too much of either of our time to verify that you can code. Why? Because I've seen enough CVs better than yours where people can't do FizzBuzz.

Not wanting to FizzBuzz is also concerning because if it's a proven method of validation, why spend extra time and resources on something more that will only tell you the same thing?

So, to me at least, your antagonism here is really you wanting to waste resources and/or not validate input. Neither are good signs.

> Did you get 5th grader questions on your university exams as well?

If a 5th grader question is good enough to answer something, why bother with a 3-hour exam?

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by bitL on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:30AM (#20165014)
> So, to me at least, your antagonism here is really you wanting to waste resources and/or not validate input. Neither are good signs.

No, I want you to give me properly challenging questions to prove you deserve to be my employer (as I will be doing the hard work to make you a gazillionaire). FizzBuzz tells me you read one article a few years ago, didn't think about it at all (why could that be a problem?), and now give it left and right to anyone that has the bad luck of interviewing with you. You are telling me you are arrogant, prideful and lazy.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:39AM (#20165101)
That’s the easy stuff. Why waste time on the harder stuff if you can’t do the easy stuff? What does that tell me about your work ethic if you think you are too good to do FizzBuzz you probably also think you are too good to fix an off by one defect we found in production.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by bitL on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:36AM (#20165708)
How can you be happy to have an off-by-one error in your code? Moreover, how can you come to a conclusion that a person that is not willing to do FizzBuzz would be happy to even ship something with off-by-one error?! Complete non sequitur... Let's wrap up this discussion for today.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:51AM (#20165923)
No one is happy with bugs but bugs happen. If you aren’t willing to do a FizzBuzz type problem because it is too “simple” you also probably will think being assigned a simple reported defect is beneath you.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by jasonlotito on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @03:36PM (#20168445)
You realize you are only reinforcing the use of FizzBuzz as a test. If it gets rid of people like you applying, it's done its job. Wastes less of my time, and ensures I get the better hires. Thanks!
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by bitL on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:03PM (#20168693)
I wouldn't want to live in your bubble when it comes crashing down and you have to face reality of your competitors.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by jasonpeacock on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:34AM (#20165675)
Have you considered that FizzBuzz is a warmup question to see if you're worthy of a properly challenging question?

The interviewer has multiple responsibilities, one of them is candidate experience. If I start with the "challenging" question and the candidate isn't ready, then I learn nothing other than they can't do it and the candidate suffers, completely lost.

But, if I start with a middle-to-low bar question, then I can always get data and easily extend or follow-up the question with something more challenging appropriate to your skill & experience.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by bitL on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:47AM (#20165860)
Dunno, the first time I went to Google interview I had absolutely brutal one as my first question (a complicated dynamic programming on combinatorial problem without closed form solution), and I absolutely loved it and after some discussion with the interviewer came to a solution in about 20 minutes, all on whiteboards I hate. I am not sure why wouldn't you rather use the time for interview or something more meaningful than to test if somebody can do a programming equivalent of 1+2+3 when you can observe from their CV that they probably aren't complete beginners and you are interviewing to get somebody for a very senior job.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @12:10PM (#20166161)
You can put anything you want on your resume. People lie all of the time.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:22AM (#20164259)
People lie on their resumes. I got tired of doing double duty as a developer and the “AWS Architect” and was finally able to get a req to hire someone. Plenty of people came in with certifications and “experience” up the wazoo but couldn’t answer simple architectural questions.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by bitL on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:10AM (#20164783)
It's a real problem, I agree. However, from the point of view of a competent programmer you need to entice them to work for you, not the other way round. The competent one also has to filter out incompetent managers/companies; I'd suggest having FizzBuzz on the interview is one such a nice signal for competent coders to stop bothering and move on.
Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:37AM (#20165086)
The equivalent of FizzBuzz for an AWS Architect is setting up a highly available website with a domain name, load balancer, autoscaling group, and the correct subnets, security groups.

Except for the autoscaling group, all of this is basically networking 101. Their “resume” said they were “certified” and had experience. If you can’t get through the easy questions, no need to waste time on the hard questions.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by perl4ever on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:12PM (#20170308)
I wouldn't do something like that, but I have sympathy.

If they didn't lie, then they wouldn't have gotten as far as they did. Everybody wants self-starters and people who can learn new things, but the person who already has experience in a laundry list of X, Y, and Z is always going to be preferred before you find out if they are a fraud.

What I did, in order to start doing something new that I didn't have experience in, was (although I didn't exactly plan it this way) to get a job that was explicitly administrative and did not involve programming and start automating it.

I don't think it's right or wrong that some people find IT culture (including interviews) intolerable, but the flow of people out of it shapes it. The more you rely (even unwittingly) on getting and keeping people who are ignorant there's something better out there, the more the ignorant (and/or incurious) shape your organization.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @08:40PM (#20170835)
I wouldn’t say they explicitly “lied” that would imply that they were all being intentionally dishonest. I think many of them thought they knew more than they did. I see this not only from people who are just starting out, but also from people working at BigCo.

Putting my developer hat on. I interview a “senior developer”

They say on their resume that they have “used AWS”. Come to find out that all they have done was remoted into some EC2 instances.

They say they have used a certain CI/CD platform. I ask them have they set a pipeline up from scratch. They say no - someone else did it, we are expected to “own the whole stack” including setting up our own pipeline for our microservice. Not a deal breaker. That can be learned in a day. We have plenty of samples they can copy from existing pipelines for almost every scenario.

They put down databases they are experienced with. I give them a scenario and I ask them to model a table schema with it. They can’t do it. They are usually handed a table schema by the “database developers” [sic].

So finally I start working my way up to the actual development and I realize that because they were just a cog in the wheel at BigCorp, they never got a chance to design or write anything from scratch. They never had the joy of creating a brand new repo and doing a git commit with the message “initial commit”. Not horrible, but at a small company, you don’t get any handholding. You’re expected to work directly with the semi-technical product owner or even the end user if you’re senior enough. You are the Directly Responsible Individual.

So now, it’s demo day. The “senior developer” is demoing his code to management who is asking him questions and he melts under pressure or he gets defensible about “his code” and interrupts the CxO.

I want to know his temperament before I hire him.

I know people are going to say it’s not “fair” to expect that from a developer. I’ve had to learn every level of the stack. At some point you can’t call yourself a “senior developer” if you don’t know anything about the underlying infrastructure for your code or how to deploy it.

The next pushback I get is that J don’t remember what’s its like being a junior developer. Six months into my first job I was told to write a distributed data entry system that was going to be used to create a new department in the company. I had to sink or swim by myself - this was over two decades ago.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by perl4ever on Thursday June 13, 2019 @06:01PM (#20178962)
"Six months into my first job I was told to write a distributed data entry system that was going to be used to create a new department in the company. I had to sink or swim by myself - this was over two decades ago."

This seems to not jibe with the rest of your comment. You were defending not giving someone a chance to dive in, and then you say you had to learn to swim on your own.

Now, perhaps your point is that such a person should have the humility to classify themselves as something less than a senior developer, and then get that experience similar to you.

However, I wonder if the issue is that anybody with more than a couple years of experience is considered to be a pariah if they aren't a senior developer, which goes hand in hand with everybody inflating their experience in a vicious cycle.

Re:What not to do when giving technical interviews (2014) by scarface74 on Thursday June 13, 2019 @06:13PM (#20179054)
Well. I got lucky. I was hired as computer operator the year after I graduated based on an internship the year before at the company - I only accepted to get to $big_city.

I was the only one that knew how to program on staff.

So yeah, taking a job as a computer operator took a lot of humility. But, it was either that or be stuck in a small city doing COBOL programming.

Even today, it took a little humility to go from being the dev lead at one company, turning down a dev lead position at another company to become an IC who is officially under less experience team leads. But, I needed to fill in some gaps in my resume.

Off Topic: I think you are one of the few people on the internet that knows the word is “jibe” not “jive”.