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Re:Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of sub... by refurb on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @09:20AM (#20155124)
Renting is absolutely cheaper in some cities, San Francisco included. Just look at the rent to price ratio. A ratio of 15 is breakeven, anything higher means it’s cheaper to rent. SF is in the high 20s.

The rental market and housing market are two separate markets. Just because it costs $X to own a home doesn’t mean rent has to be $X or higher.

Re:Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of sub... by madengr on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @09:33AM (#20155215)
Well they typically don’t make 500 ft^2 homes for $1M, but you can find 500 ft^2 apartments for $3k/month. I think a house has a minimum size, thus a minimum price over that of rent.
Re:Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of sub... by refurb on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @10:34AM (#20155761)
The same holds true for houses. As someone who has been following the SF market closely, an 1100 sq ft house that's worth $1.1M would cost $5,300 in cash flow per month (mortgage, taxes, insurance) plus another $925 in opportunity cost (down payment @ 5%) for a grand total of $6225. And that's not including maintenance costs.

The same home could be rented for ~$4500 per month.

Keep in mind that most rented houses were purchased a while ago. If you bought the same house when it was $700K, you could still make a profit on a rent of $4500.

The reason why owning costs more is because buyers are also assuming appreciation. If you sell the same house for $1.5M 5 years later, you still make a nice profit even if your monthly cash flow is negative.

Re:Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of sub... by kd5bjo on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @10:56AM (#20155962)
Don’t forget that part of that $6225 is paying down principal, which will be recouped when selling or simply disappear from monthly costs after the mortgage is paid off. Also, most ownership costs move less with inflation than rents do, so in 10 years the comparison is $6225 2019 dollars vs $4500 2029 dollars.

Also, once you hit 20% ownership, you no longer have to pay mortgage insurance.

I haven’t run the numbers lately to figure out which side wins, but the analysis is significantly more complicated than comparing monthly outlays in the first year.

Re:Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of sub... by refurb on Tuesday June 11, 2019 @11:20AM (#20156206)
which will be recouped when selling

That assumes that you can sell the house for more than what you bought it at.

You are correct that principle may be recouped and in addition, you get a mortgage interest tax deduction. However, you also pay 6% when you sell the place and maintenance costs (~1% per year) need to be accounted for.

There are several assumptions you need to make for owning to be cheaper than renting - that usually involves owning for a longer period of time (>5 years) and some modest appreciation (~3%+).

Of course, my numbers were from the SF market. There are many cities in the US where owning is cheaper than renting from day 1. SF just isn't one of those.

A good place to mention the NYTimes rent versus buy calculator: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/upshot/buy-rent-cal...

Re:Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of sub... by kd5bjo on Thursday June 13, 2019 @06:38AM (#20173413)
> That assumes that you can sell the house for more than what you bought it at.

Not necessarily; as long as the value of the house[1] doesn’t fall more than the principal you’ve paid, you’ll get more cash from the sale than you put up as a down payment. The trouble with buying on margin, though, is that it amplifies losses— the worst single day in the stock market[2] was about a 20% drop, but you get the same effect from a 1% drop in your house value if you hold the 95% mortgage that you described.

  [1] Folding transaction fees into the effective value
  [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Monday_(1987)