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Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by vkou on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @01:49PM (#20107134)
> Noise is my main concern with drone delivery networks.

What about 20-50 lb flying machines falling onto sidewalks, roofs, and streets?

You don't see amateur RC aviation enthusiasts flying their model airplanes in the middle of the city, and I sure as hell don't want to see a corporation doing this on an industrial scale.

Why not ground-based drone delivery?

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by joshvm on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @03:26PM (#20108209)
This probably isn't for cities. I was at a conference a few years back where Prime Air gave a talk. It was quite a vague talk, but admittedly it was hilarious watching Takeo Kanade grill the speaker on technical details that he refused to elaborate on. Things have no doubt moved on, but they were talking about use cases like delivering to rural areas where people have big gardens to land in. So potentially places where sending a delivery truck miles out of the way would be expensive (e.g. a 20 minute detour to one house). That's where the interesting applications of drone delivery are.

That drone is pretty big, and they're getting extra lift out of the wings which conveniently double as prop guards. Flight time is presumably at least an hour, if it can get something to a customer in half an hour (and has to get back). You'd need quite a few since each drone can therefore only make around 10-20 deliveries a day if they swap out the batteries when it lands. 30 mile round trip range is pretty decent. Also on size - you need somewhere to land it with a few metres wriggle room either side. There's no way that's going into a built up area.

There's no point doing drone delivery in urban environments, the safety case is insane and you're competing with excellent existing delivery channels.

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by throwaway5752 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:01PM (#20107296)
Why are you downvoted? Safety is a thousand times more concerning - the drones will mechanically fail, they will hit bad weather, they will collide with birds, there will be new drone delivery market entrants and will need coordination across systems... If a drone fails at an expected operating altitude, it can kill someone easily on the ground. If it fails at height over a highway, what if it kills a bus driver or causes a tractor trailer to lose control? What if they hit electric lines? What else can go in flight corridors at the same altitudes? Do they container chemicals or voltages that first responders have to be aware of?
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by zjaffee on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:23PM (#20107560)
There's a reason why it's taking so long for Amazon to get FAA approval for drone delivery and this is exactly why. There are people in important places asking these sorts of questions already.

My guess personally, is that drone delivery will ultimately just be a tool for a self driving truck to get the package from the truck to the door. Drones are not nearly good enough as it stands today to do end to end deliveries at an industrial scale outside of maybe a few rural areas.

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by greenburger on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:27PM (#20107621)
The same people in important places that approved the 737 Max?
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by pwinnski on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @03:03PM (#20107995)
In the sense that they are human, yes. Even in the sense that they work for the government, which narrows the pool to 20,000,000+

But also, no. Not the same people.

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by greenburger on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @07:50PM (#20110239)
I get your point but the relevant agency division FAA AVS employees 7,200 people [0]. Fewer than that are involved in certifying aircraft safety. Agencies like all other human groups have cultures.

[0] https://www.faa.gov/about/plans_reports/congress/media/fy17_...

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by dragonwriter on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:04PM (#20109125)
Wasn't a critical issue with 737 MAX that incumbent manufacturers are able to self-certify equivalency without any review?

So, to the extent the Boeing 737 MAX team is not reviewing Amazon's applications, no, not the same people.

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by BrandonMarc on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:46PM (#20107834)
Yes ... so they have experience in crashing planes, which is relevant. /s
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by jandrewrogers on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:19PM (#20109282)
I don't think people fully appreciate the carefulness with which the FAA has approached this, nor the full scope of the scenarios they have considered.

If you look at the first FAA waivers to operate drones industrially -- 5 years ago! -- you will notice that all of the approved drones are military drones. Why military drones? Because the approved drones often had a decade or more of operational use in explicitly hostile environments and very poorly controlled conditions. Being able to reliably operate in those conditions was considered strong evidence they were unlikely to start falling out of the sky when operated under much better controlled environments and less risky conditions.

The challenge for many new drone builders is that their platforms are not built anywhere close to the reliability and resilience standards of military drone systems, which are typical the product of companies with proven aviation/avionics systems engineering experience and bankrolled by US defense spending. Even when they build systems that on paper meet this level of engineering, the lack of operational history and experience puts these drones on the slow path to approval.

Amazon getting the FAA to sign off on industrial use of an exotic drone airframe with no operational history strongly suggests that its safety and resilience characteristics are excellent, at least comparable to drones designed to survive military environments.

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by jessriedel on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:28PM (#20107630)
The comment is uninteresting and rightly downvoted because (1) it's been discussed to death and has nothing to do with this particular experimental drone model and (2) we already have effective legal apparatuses to deal with liability.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by Alupis on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:31PM (#20107670)
Neither of those are reasons to not discuss this more. We, as a society, prevent all sorts of things from happening without having to just wait for a lawsuit to settle things or whatever.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by jessriedel on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:05PM (#20109131)
One has to actually make an argument for the liability system being insufficient. Merely pointing out risks is not enough, especially since no one here has bothered to even do an order-of-magnitude comparison between the risks and the benefits. It's just noise and emoting.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by Alupis on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @05:54PM (#20109559)
Benefits: You get your stuff quicker from Amazon

Risks: See everything else

Do you really, like I mean _really_ need your stuff from Amazon same day, hours after ordering it? No, you really don't. Nobody does. It's a convenience, a nice-to-have, but is totally unnecessary.

So, I think the burden of proof lays squarely on Amazon and it's proponents of this type of service, to prove beyond any reasonable doubt the risks can be mitigated to the point where the public accepts them as a trade-off.

Having potentially 50lbs of drone fall on your car while you're driving home from work is probably not going to be acceptable... to name just one risk that will have to be proven to be minimized. Or noise levels will be controlled near neighborhoods etc... Other industries have to prove their new thing is safe and acceptable for the public... why should Amazon be any different?

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by cmonnow on Thursday June 06, 2019 @10:00AM (#20114620)
> Do you really, like I mean _really_ need your stuff..hours after ordering it? No, you really don't..It's a convenience

The same could be asked of 2-day home-delivery 20 years back, or 2-day world-travel 200 years back. Yet, here we are.

If necessity is the mother of invention, laziness is the father.

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by jessriedel on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @06:51PM (#20109916)
Yes, that's an excellent imitation of the sort of comment of I was complaining about.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by jagger27 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @01:52PM (#20107170)
Not to mention people's heads! I have faith in agencies like the FAA to keep things safe and reasonable, and where that isn't enough NIMBYs and municipal governments will pick up the slack, no doubt.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by derekp7 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @02:29PM (#20107644)
> I have faith in agencies like the FAA to keep things safe

Has this faith been shaken by the recent 737 Max issues?

Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by patrick5415 on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:40AM (#20111899)
No. Air travel is still incredibly safe, a few high profile accidents notwithstanding.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by buu700 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @03:49PM (#20108419)
Interesting point. Maybe instead we should be using self-driving cars with drones (or something ground-based, like RC skateboards) only handling moving packages from the car to the door.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by hn_throwaway_99 on Wednesday June 05, 2019 @03:54PM (#20108467)
This exists: https://nuro.ai/
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by megablast on Thursday June 06, 2019 @01:20AM (#20111818)
It can't be worse than the cars and trucks it will replace, which kill 40,000 people every single year in the USA alone.
Re:Amazon Unveils Futuristic Helicopter-Plane Hybrid Drone f... by vkou on Thursday June 06, 2019 @08:50PM (#20120650)
How many people do Amazon delivery drivers kill/year? Pretty sure it's not 40,000.