https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLgPVm03OGI
Parlor trick AND life saver!
My "climbing" is all rescue related (so almost entirely rappelling/hauling, not actual climbing), but I don't think I've ever used a bowline for anything life-safety related, with or without a safety knot.
Bowline is useful if you are likely to take lots of falls on a single rope as with sport climbing (bolts) with frequent untying, where figure of eight can become very difficult to undo. Technically figure of eight is stronger in terms of _rope_ failure, but this is not usually the most important thing for climbing since if the instant force is strong enough for that to be a concern you are going to break your back anyway. It is however unsafer in the sense of being more easy to tie badly, for that reason I'd never encourage a novice climber to use it over a figure of eight - but when you are experienced, and are taking falls (and have a routine to check the knot), this knot saves your fingers and your rope from a lot of unnecessary stress. In a rescue context though I can't see any benefit, so figure of eight for sure.
Like you said, the figure-8 excels in strength (which matters more in rescue, since you're often dealing with loads heavier than a single climber), and has the added advantage of being easily inspected. I can look at a figure-8 someone else tied and have a high degree of confidence very quickly; I feel like that's harder with the bowline (since it's asymmetrical, etc).
I like the sheetbend, or double sheetbend for tying two ropes together, as long as they are similar is size and not to thick.
That sounds good, but the thing with that knot is it's not "assurance", it's required, it has a tendency to come undone without it, the free end just works it's way back toward the knot - especially when wet which makes many sailors shun it. Many climbers have also died using this knot without a stopper. The stopper should be considered an integral part of the bowline, there are other bowline variations which also serve this purpose as with your example.
Gommers catalogs many of them in his bowline treatise.
I never used a stopper on a bowline, if done correctly you don't need a stopper, is not going to slip.
As a sort of meta, you are not making your point any easier to accept the way you presented it, you start off by stating "it has a tendency to come undone [...]", but then switch to "it has the potential to work it's way loose given enough wiggling".
This is nuts, are you talking about a different knot?... look at it: https://www.animatedknots.com/bowline-knot part of what makes this so easy to untie is what makes it easy for the end to slip through, the first loop self tightens (which locks the second loop), but also untightens itself when load is released again. you can't fit a full stopper through, but it's intuitive to see how the end can inch it's way through the first loop as the rope is repetitively tensioned and untensioned in different positions like a rachet.
> Here is some data: https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing-skills/strongest-sai.... Note that the knot did not fail, the lines did. Also, note the loads they are talking about, >1 tonne.
You are referring to a completely different aspect, failure of a _static_ line under constant or instant load in a single position, this is completely different to the potential of a knot to work it's way loose under light or zero load and has more to do with how different choices in knots weaken the rope.
These knots don't work themselves loose at the instant load is applied, they do so before when they have opportunity to wriggle around. When climbing this is the scenario every single time you use it as a safety knot, 90% of the time it's not under load but will be continuously lightly tugged back and forth, sometimes tension will be applied then released over and over, then when you finally load it fully with your weight is merely the point you _realise_ it has failed. My mind is made on this one, I have a lot of first hand experience with this knot in climbing on dynamic lines, i am intuitively familiar with it's behaviour, perhaps in your context of static lines holding down things in one position with relatively constant load it is reliable as is (fair enough), but this does not make it _safe_ for all uses.
You've coaxed me into this massive argument against it like it's some terrible knot, but this is my favourite knot.. keep in mind I am talking about _safety_, where failure of the knot means your death, the basic bowline is a very reliable knot for most uses without a stopper - just not for hanging from deadly heights, for that it has to be more than just 99% reliable, and in that case, all it takes is an extra step... but it doesn't have to be about safety it can apply to anything that is important enough, as I said in my original comment: "make sure you give it a generous safety stopper knot if it's _vital_"
> you start off by stating "it has a tendency to come undone [...]", but then switch to "it has the potential to work it's way loose given enough wiggling".
Not really sure what you are complaining about, this is pretty clear, it has a tendency to come undone... did you imagine it would just untie itself without any movement?
In the end, put all the stopping knots you want, but tie the damn knot properly.
ffs, the video is an example, you really think anyone ties it that loose in practice? are all of your arguments going to be strawmen?
Your link is broken. and if all you are showing is a tightened version it's pointless.
> You definitely do not know how a bowline works
Based on what? your disagreement? you assuming i tie it loose like an example video? I really don't care what you think anymore, i've explained and reasoned in great detail (and i'm far from alone in this reasoning)... but you don't argue against my reasoning, all you do is accuse me of not tying correctly and then don't give specifics, you've never even seen me tie it so it's a massive assumption based purely on "I don't agree", you obviously can't be reasoned with. I've tied this knot probably over 10,000 times, and all of your arguments are very troll like, goodbye.
RE the "square not", in the UK this is usually called a reef knot: never use this for safety, a far superior alternative is the double fishermans https://www.animatedknots.com/double-fishermans-bend-knot, also use this for climbing, this is considered the best, strongest, safest way to join the ends of two ropes and it's pretty simple (you can add stoppers for safety or just make very long ends unlike the video). Unlike the bowline it can be a bitch to undo, but if you need safety...