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Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by steveklabnik on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:16PM (#20032800)
This is a great example of why syntax and semantics can't be separated. This works great in GC'd languages, but in Rust, these two things may not be equivalent. With the distinction between owned and temporary values, this may change the lifetime of what stuff is in scope and when. This is reduced a bit with non-lexical lifetimes, but it's not, strictly speaking, actually equivalent.
Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by nemothekid on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:21PM (#20032853)
I think this is a good example to show people who are on the fence about postfix then. I haven't felt strongly about postfix, but this is an eye opener for me.
Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by steveklabnik on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:30PM (#20032931)
Yeah, I think the trick is that the theory and practice might be the same. And usually, it's the other way around; spreading it out makes it work, whereas it may not otherwise. For example:

    fn main() {
        let world = gives_string().split(" ").next();
        
        println!("{:?}", world);
    }
    
    fn gives_string() -> String {
        String::from("hello world")
    }
This will fail because the String is temporary, and we're trying to get a reference to it (via split), and so it would be deallocated at the end of the line, being a use-after-free. This, however, compiles:

    fn main() {
        let world = gives_string();
        let world = world.split(" ").next();
        
        println!("{:?}", world);
    }
    
    fn gives_string() -> String {
        String::from("hello world")
    }
We're shadowing 'world', but the underlying String now lives to the end of main, so everything works, no more use-after free.

I think before I'd want a good real-world example of where doing the multi-line thing goes wrong before I'd want to make an argument that this is why postfix is better.

Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by iknowstuff on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:46PM (#20033077)
This has surprised me on occasion. Shouldn't the compiler be smart enough to figure out how long to keep it around for, instead of failing to compile?
Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by tylerhou on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:56PM (#20033177)
The compiler is smart enough to deduce lifetimes — that’s why it can throw a compile error — but fixing them (auto-keeping temporaries) might introduce extra memory consumption/leaks that the programmer did not intend. Requiring the programmer to explicitly assign a temporary to a variable makes the programmer’s intent more clear.

A comparison: in C++, the behavior of auto-extending the lifetime of const references to temporaries (but not non-const references) is considered a wart in the language design. (Really, you should just assign a temporary to a value because the compiler can elide the copy. : https://abseil.io/tips/101 .)

Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by steveklabnik on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:52PM (#20033138)
One could argue that the compiler could transform this for you. But systems languages are also about control. For someone versed in the way things are supposed to work, an owned value living longer than it should is surprising.

Tradeoffs, tradeoffs.

Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by hombre_fatal on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @02:28PM (#20032903)
It's a better case for showing how to use .map().
Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by seppel on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @06:56PM (#20035233)
I totally get where you coming from, and even in non GC'd languages such as C++ lifetimes are extended (or not...) when you break down expression.

However, I also strongly perfer to give these subexpressions names. That tremendously helps when debugging, logging, or just discussing the code with colleagues. In fact, these subexpressions do exist and they are a certain unit to reason about, especially when the program is not doing what it should. In these cases (and not only these) you really want to give them a canonical name and not only "line 42".

Maybe there should be a syntactical equivalent for named subexpressions.

Re:Update on await syntax in Rust by steveklabnik on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @07:33PM (#20035486)
I do too, which is why I preferred prefix await.