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Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:27AM (#20009250)
> Misrepresented occurrences such as this are used to energise lies that have bubbled around in the far reaches of the internet for a while, waiting for their moment.

You don't need to wait for the Internet, most large media groups are propaganda tools for their own political side. No need to do any "deep fake", "selective editing" is all that's needed to take things out of context and publish a different narrative based on what you want to portray.

Now the question is, what do we do about propaganda, regardless of the medium?

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ajross on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:52AM (#20009372)
Sorry, do you have an example of a "large media group" "selectively editing" a video to make someone look drunk for the purposes of propaganda? Anything equivalent?

This sounds like a clever attempt to "both sides do it" a way out of actually admitting that this video and its pushing by a bunch of partisans (right up to and including the office of the President of the United States) was awful.

You agree this is awful, right?

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by insickness on Saturday May 25, 2019 @12:51PM (#20010002)
> Sorry, do you have an example of a "large media group" "selectively editing" a video

You don't have to look too far to see large media groups selectively editing videos, or at least choosing to not display portions of video that exonerate someone. Nicholas Sandmann, the MAGA-hat wearing teen, was said to be part of a group confronting a Native American protester. When you look at the full video, it was the Native American who was confrontational. He walked over into the middle of the group rather than the group confronting him.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by kadendogthing on Saturday May 25, 2019 @01:31PM (#20010187)
>When you look at the full video, it was the Native American who was confrontational.

Absolutely false.

This was a group of students who were using their free time to protest the reproductive rights of others, and in the midst of doing this did incredibly racist stuff to a Native American protester who was merely trying to keep balance of peace in these stressful engagements.

There is direct video evidence of students

* Shouting "go back to Africa"

* Doing the tomahawk chop

* Harassing other (even white) groups of women (https://twitter.com/roflinds/status/1087486166939680768)

All in a situation where they greatly outnumbered these people in the first place, and all of them wearing MAGA hats.

Basically your post is either extremely dishonest or ignorant about the actual facts. Not only does all available video evidence most definitely not exonerate the group, it puts them squarely right where people initially pegged them, and on top of all that no point is the Native American being the confrontational one.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by insickness on Saturday May 25, 2019 @03:19PM (#20010739)
He walked up to them. They did not walk up to him. Therefore he was being the aggressive one, end of story.

> This was a group of students who were using their free time to protest

Because you disagree with what they were protesting, they had no right to be there? Absolutely wrong.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by kadendogthing on Saturday May 25, 2019 @03:43PM (#20010894)
>He walked up to them.

That's not aggression. Don't be stupid.

>Because you disagree with what they were protesting, they had no right to be there?

I never said they didn't have the right. Where did I say that? But allow me to help clarify whatever misconceptions you have about what I plainly stated in very few words: It's at best a fundamentally baseless position that has extremely negative consequences for society. At worst its downright an act of evil because you believe you should control other people based on faulty religious grounds.

They were using their free time to support this position. Not really a good look for them.

So I am absolutely correct in totality with my assessment of the situation. And if you think otherwise, allow me to make the claim that you need to evaluate some critical aspects of your perspective on this. If all you can say about what's being said is that it's a disagreement, then you're better of not saying anything at all. It makes you look better.

I noticed you couldn't or simply decided to not address the factual negations to your assumptions. Might want to work on that.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by insickness on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:56PM (#20011372)
>> He walked up to them.

> That's not aggression.

Getting in someone's face is an escalation of physical aggression beyond merely saying something.

> Don't be stupid.

This will be my last interaction with you because you can't discuss ideas without hostility. Try discussing things like an adult.

> [them protesting abortion is] at worst a downright act of evil

You have no tolerance of opposing opinion yet claim to be the one with critical perspective. You've just proved my point: People wanted to believe that the Covington kids were aggressive and evil and so jumped to that conclusion without seeing the totality of what actually happened.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ajross on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:18PM (#20012733)
> Getting in someone's face is an escalation of physical aggression

It's literally not. That's not what "physical" means. It's... provoking. The guy with the drum was... I dunno, he was an asshole.

It's certainly possible that he knew the kids were loose cannons and was hoping that by "getting in someone's face" he could get one of them to throw a punch on camera. Could be. I mean, the guy clearly had an agenda, and it probably doesn't align with your politics. But that's still not "aggression" by any reasonable definition. Stop being a snowflake.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by kadendogthing on Sunday May 26, 2019 @10:50AM (#20015178)
I noticed you still could not address the negations to your original claims, and instead decided to call other people childish because you did not like the critique being levied at you. Definitely the sign of a mature adult.

>You have no tolerance of opposing opinion

If all you can say about what's being discussed is that it's a simple difference of opinion, you are far better off just not saying anything at all. You are effectively trying to debase constructive conversation and turn it into a meta argument, because you can't actually make a real one.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Saturday May 25, 2019 @11:17AM (#20009495)
> "selectively editing" a video to make someone look drunk

No, I don't have anything that specific in mind, but there's enough examples even in recent history of "selective editing" clearly aimed at taking people down, out of context. And yes, let me say it again, "on both sides".

This is probably driven by the fact that outrage brings views, and views bring money + influence to such media groups, and then it's just an extra step to manufacture outrage for your own benefits. That's why all sides do it: same incentives at play.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ajross on Saturday May 25, 2019 @12:36PM (#20009912)
So, all sides do it except only one side actually did it but you're pretty sure the other side did too because you personally believe they'd want to so therefore it must have happened ... ?
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Sunday May 26, 2019 @08:22AM (#20014533)
> all sides do it except only one side actually did it

Selective editing? There's abundance of videos on youtube compiling Trump being unable to pronounce things and Obama missing a few words - all compiled to make them both of them look stupid. How is that not both sides? Not sure what your point exactly is.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ajross on Sunday May 26, 2019 @10:13AM (#20015025)
You think compiling a video of real-world malapropisms is somehow the same thing as ... fabricating evidence like this? Seriously?

I mean, Obama and Trump actually said that stuff. Yes, it's misleading, but it's "true" in some kind of abstract sense.

This video of Pelosi was a straight up lie. She didn't say that stuff that way. You get that there's a moral difference here, right?

The fact that people can be fooled with cleverly structure and possibly misleading factual argument is not a license to lie like a sumbitch whenever you want. And that you seem to think so is horrifying.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Tuesday May 28, 2019 @07:21AM (#20028989)
> fabricating evidence like this?

Are we talking about the same thing? Slowing down a video 25% is not fabricating anything, it's just "slowing down the actual video", and people found it very quickly so it was rather obvious. Fabrication involves changing what the person actually says in my book.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by golemotron on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:37AM (#20009298)
And what do we do about propaganda that we don't see as propaganda because it reinforces our view of the world.

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" translates to "one person's information is another person's propaganda."

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:41AM (#20009320)
It's an insolvable problem, I think, and censorship is certainly not the right way to approach it. I may be wrong, but I believe a combination of 1) severe distrust of any form of media, 2) a healthy dose of criticism, 3) a wide range of sources of information, can somewhat help to reduce the issue. 1) and 2) require proper education, and 3) is about having a healthy journalistic landscape (i.e. lots of viewpoints and many ways to exchange them).
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by egman_ekki on Saturday May 25, 2019 @12:05PM (#20009742)
How do you suppose one should function, if one approaches every single sentence of every published news (which I think includes research as well) as being possibly untrue (which, I assume, is what's meant by severe distrust)? If there are no credible sources, how can you know anything about this world with any degree of certainty, then?
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by iamnothere on Saturday May 25, 2019 @05:22PM (#20011526)
It is an extraordinarily difficult problem.

I have taken to reading a large number of individual sources, identifying the more trustworthy ones over time, and trusting primarily those sources. When one of them shifts to publishing propaganda (it is often a sudden unexplainable shift) then I write them off and remove them from my feed. Often I'll discover new sources through the networks of trusted sources.

This is very inefficient and I wish there were a better way to do it. It's not a perfect system, but it works well enough for me.

You used to be able to trust media institutions, as long as you knew their biases, but even basic facts are in question now and a great deal of so-called news is completely factless. (Headline: "Why politician X might be doing something illegal, maybe" with of course no facts to back up the supposition)

Media is flailing around searching for a sustainable business model, but it isn't working yet. Until they find something, I think we're stuck with bought-and-paid-for propaganda.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Sunday May 26, 2019 @08:25AM (#20014550)
> If there are no credible sources

To me the answer lies in having access to a large variety of sources. The probability of false information goes down as decentralization of information goes up. For example, if you watch 10 people doing a live streaming event of a demonstration, you are probably going to have a better understanding of the event than from a single reporter on a major TV channel.

Of course, this means you can't fact-check everything because it would be way too much time consuming. So personally I live largely by ignoring the mass media and admit that I dont really know what is going on in most places besides very basic piece of news, and I certainly dont have enough information to have an opinion either.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by abootstrapper on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:46AM (#20009338)
This is not biased news. It is absolutely fake being passed as true. Not Donald Trump’s definition of fake (news you don’t like), but actually not factual. The two are not equivalent. Pizza gate is not real, the earth is not flat, vaccines do not cause autism. These and other false claims are being passed off as facts by a few bad actors and propagated through fake accounts to sow discontent. It’s working, and it has to stop. Facebook, Twitter, and other tech corporations have to put an end to this for the good of humanity, or humanity needs to put an end to these corporations.
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by wbronitsky on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:54AM (#20009385)
It is always deeply ironic to me that unpopular sentiments about censorship are routinely censored on HN (the parent post is getting downvoted, which is censorship here)
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ThrowawayR2 on Saturday May 25, 2019 @11:41AM (#20009605)
It might be more accurately thought of as teaching the pro-censorship side a lesson about the consequences of their own principles. Surely those who advocate the deplatforming of bad ideas, of all people, have no right to protest when the public decides their views are bad ideas and deplatforms them?
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by abootstrapper on Saturday May 25, 2019 @12:12PM (#20009772)
Or whomever has the most fake accounts wins.
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by kadendogthing on Saturday May 25, 2019 @10:55AM (#20009393)
> most large media groups are propaganda tools for their own political side

No, most "large media groups" are not.

Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by ekianjo on Saturday May 25, 2019 @11:13AM (#20009478)
I'd welcome an example if you can find a media group that's neutral and factual about everything they cover.
Re:Clip shows misinformation still has a home on Facebook by kadendogthing on Saturday May 25, 2019 @11:18AM (#20009504)
NPR, BBC, Reuters, PBS, C-SPAN. You may have also heard of the Associated Press.

You know what would be REALLY neat? Like it'd absolutely tickle my pickle? For people trying to blandly "both sides" this to provide substantial evidence this is an endemic, inherit problem and that's it not really just one side who consistently misrepresents scientific and civic issues? Because even if you take the claim at face value, there is clearly a very appreciable gap in how these biases are applied and used.

This style of rhetoric and view point is irritating to see and engage with, because it's just cynicism masquerading as wisdom or insight, and it completely stifles constructive progress around these subjects.