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Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by nkkollaw on Friday May 24, 2019 @06:41PM (#20005929)
Nice try Karl Marx, but that simply isn't true, especially in the States.

If you provide value, you will get out of poverty and even get rich. You don't always need money personally to provide value.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by dagss on Friday May 24, 2019 @06:51PM (#20005984)
How do you get the mental resources and education to "provide value"? How do you become resourceful? Simplest way is: Do not be born in a poor family.

On a more narrow level -- if people have to worry about food on the table, the stress itself causes IQ to drop, also in experiments.

Of course there are exceptions, but on a statistical level, poverty is inherited -- because of what you mention, not in spite of it!

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by nkkollaw on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:01AM (#20008078)
In Europe, universities are free. Poor people get housing, money for food, etc. if you go to school.

I studied in the States and some people at my college were being paid $700/mo. on top of dorms if they took at least a handful of classes.

If poverty is inherited it's because of a negative culture and worldview is passed down, not because of money.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by 6cd6beb on Friday May 24, 2019 @06:59PM (#20006028)
Two kinds of people in this system. One of them thinks if you work hard you can climb your way out of poverty through your own self determination and hard work.
Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by afuchs on Friday May 24, 2019 @07:12PM (#20006088)
> Two kinds of people in this system.

Three or more if you count more realistic viewpoints.

> Two kinds of people in this system. One of them thinks if you work hard you can climb your way out of poverty through your own self determination and hard work.

Self determination and hard work is necessary for success but it doesn't mean much without opportunity. Opportunity is unevenly distributed.

What one person see as value, which creates someone else's opportunity, is often determined by subjective social and cultural factors and isn't always objective or rational.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by nkkollaw on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:21PM (#20011842)
Everything is unevenly distributed. Race, height, money, attractiveness, IQ, etc.

If you are unlucky, you have to work more.

If opportunity doesn't present itself, you go look for it.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by frankbreetz on Friday May 24, 2019 @06:53PM (#20005994)
If you provide value someone will get rich. I would say rarely the person providing the value and the one getting rich are the same.
Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by nkkollaw on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:08AM (#20008110)
Can you give me an example? The guy who has the idea and takes the risk is 1000 times more important than the guy who assembles the idea.

That's why they get paid more.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by rellekio on Friday May 24, 2019 @06:54PM (#20006001)
https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

It's about something new versus what we have tried to this point.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by omegaworks on Friday May 24, 2019 @06:50PM (#20005979)
Your company captures the value you provide, and attempts to pay you as little as possible in the process. This is the process by which profit itself is created.
Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by 6cd6beb on Friday May 24, 2019 @07:01PM (#20006044)
So? There's more than one party negotiating that rate of pay.

Think it's unfair for one person to negotiate against a company? Maybe, but that's where unions become useful.

There's ill will against them, and they're not widely used (at least in tech), but maybe that's the problem. If so it's not a problem worth tearing down the whole system.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by nkkollaw on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:02AM (#20008083)
In this day and age, you often don't need a corporation behind you to provide value.

Actually, it seems like not even in the past you did, since many many companies were started in a garage.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by omegaworks on Saturday May 25, 2019 @02:39PM (#20010513)
The garage mythos borders on capitalist propaganda.

Here's Steve Wozniak debunking the Apple garage myth:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/05/steve-woz...

And an entire thread debunking the "started in a garage" for the market dominators of today:

https://twitter.com/historic_ly/status/1119980086420299777

These founders have always had some access to resources above and beyond what is considered "standard issue." It's about time we get realistic about the necessary conditions that were required to start these radically successful companies, because we shouldn't design economies or social policies around myths.

Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by blacksqr on Friday May 24, 2019 @08:36PM (#20006410)
Capitalism is explicitly designed to ensure that those who provide value don't get to keep it. Value is funneled to those who have capital. Hence "capitalism."
Re:Is There a Crisis in Capitalism? by nkkollaw on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:05AM (#20008096)
Im a car factory, workers who make cars provide value, but management who keep the company afloat, owners who take all the risk, etc. provide an even greater value.

I'm amazed people don't see that and simplify the whole thing into "owners exploit workers". It's just absurd.