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Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by war1025 on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @03:58PM (#19974260)
All communities push agendas. It just doesn't feel like agenda-pushing when it's something you agree with.
Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by izzydata on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @04:12PM (#19974401)
Children don't know what they agree with. It's unfair to them to be forced into a particular beliefs due to fear of repercussions in an "after-life".
Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by veddox on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @04:28PM (#19974588)
Is it unfair for parents to pass on to their kids what they themselves are firmly convinced of? Isn't that what all parents (are supposed to) do?
Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by izzydata on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @04:41PM (#19974732)
The method of passing on knowledge is extremely relevant.
Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by tathougies on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @04:50PM (#19974843)
Oh really? What way of passing on knowledge do you have that is free of all bias?
Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by andrepd on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @07:05PM (#19976057)
We can see by your sequence of comments that you're not in good faith. I believe that you understand exactly what is being discussed here but you are trying to derail the conversation.

'Passing on "knowledge"' in a religious setting means indoctrinating children from a very young age, very literally since they become sentient beings. You say something to the effect of "here is a set of things that are true: I'm daddy, she's mommy, the sky is blue, and Jesus is god." You present your faith as a dogmatic view that will become entrenched and an integral part of his/her identity. As something that is above questioning. I find this deeply wrong from an ethical point of view, but also very harmful from a practical point of view, as you're teaching them some very twisted things (obey without question or you will be punished; accept things from figures of authority without evidence; etc.).

Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by tathougies on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @08:17PM (#19976490)
> obey without question or you will be punished; accept things from figures of authority without evidence; etc.).

That is a wild mischaracterization of religion. If you read sources like Thomas Aquinas or Catherine of Siena or Thomas More or Cardinal Newman (I can go on), you are not exposed to this kind of childish religious experience you are criticizing. All these people questioned and did not accept authority without evidence.

I fail to see how telling your children what you believe is any different from your indoctrination. For example, you say 'I am mommy', 'I am daddy', as if that's not equally societally constructed. Now, I personally believe such things are from a transcendent creator. However, ignoring that, it is unclear why you think those statements are any more 'true' than mine. Not all societies have this, so I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is also not a form of cultural indoctrination.

Now, of course an easy retort is that such things, while perhaps constructed, are still true, since a child is obviously brought up in a certain culture. However, most parents lessons to children go well beyond 'I am mommy'. Most parents give their children an entire worldview, which contains certain beliefs, etc, that cannot be justified on their own.

One will then claim that well perhaps that is true, but the goal is to teach questioning. And while that is perhaps true, I do not see in my own generation and younger, a generation of questioners, so I'm unconvinced that such things are automatic the moment one gives up religion. But I'm convinceable, so please..

Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by izzydata on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @05:29PM (#19975268)
Why do you believe this is a matter of bias? I'm talking about the difference between handing your child a book and whipping them into submission. Clearly one of those methods is terrible. I'd consider instilling fear of damnation on your children much closer to the latter. One of those things promotes critical thinking and the other locks them into a singular set of beliefs.

I can't think of anything worse for society.

Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by instantwhat on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @08:03PM (#19976410)
> I'm talking about the difference between handing your child a book and whipping them into submission.

Isn't that a false dichotomy?

Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by izzydata on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @08:37PM (#19976627)
No, but you didn't read the rest of the comment to find out why.
Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by tathougies on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @08:20PM (#19976521)
> child a book and whipping them into submission

That is an incredibly false dichotomy, and one at odds with the existence of many fine Catholics (my religion, and the only one I can really speak on) who questioned / refused to bow down to bad authority.

I feel a more nuanced approach to religion would do everyone justice.

Re:A Solution for Loneliness: Get out and volunteer, researc... by Retra on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @04:13PM (#19974410)
That's true, but you're also dancing around the relevant thesis: not all agendas are created equal. Some agendas are better than others in very real and practicable senses, and thus if you assume people are able to optimize their agreement based on shared values, there is little reason to assume their disagreement with the stated agenda-pushing is so arbitrary.