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Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by chongli on Monday May 20, 2019 @02:04PM (#19963202)
This sounds to me like doing a full workup on blood chemistry. Individuals vary so much that you can get false positives.

Wouldn't it be more useful as a baseline? Scan once and store it, then scan every few years and compare. If any of the "anomalies" has grown or new ones have appeared between scans, then they might be worth a second look?

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by jashephe on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:21PM (#19964743)
Some of the comments here don't touch on the practical limitations of this, but here's one — I'm at a 1400+ bed top-10 US academic medical center, and even our outpatient MRI machines book patients until near-midnight because the scans take so long. I'm not sure if we even have the imaging capacity at this point to be scanning healthy people.
Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by mattkrause on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:38PM (#19964926)
This!

I got up at 4am to run scans in grad school because the even the research scanners were booked solid, never mind the clinical ones. Scanners are really expensive: the machine costs a lot, it needs fairly particular conditions (shielded room, cryogens), and trained operators and analysts.

There's maybe a market for fleecing the extremely wealthy into undergoing MRI fishing expeditions, but you'd have to charge a fortune if you're going to buy scanners to do it.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by ohithereyou on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:31PM (#19964840)
I work for a company that makes MRI machines. There is an industry wide push to reduce scan times. Even a 30 second or one minute reduction on scan time per protocol can translate into one or two more scans a day. Across a fleet of scanners, this can be millions of dollars a year in revenue.

There are hospitals that have switched brands of scanners over protocol times.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by matwood on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:31PM (#19964847)
I don't know if they are high enough quality for a full body scan, but there are MRI places literally in strip malls now. Cash price for a back scan is ~$350.
Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by xvilka on Monday May 20, 2019 @09:31PM (#19966917)
Nations like Japan, China are pushing MRI resolution and speed, along with lowering the costs. Particularly because the average people getting older, thus diagnostics will reduce the cost of healthcare on the long run, on the scale of these countries.
Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by petschge on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:00PM (#19963806)
Getting a baseline is harder than it sounds.

In the case of blood chemistry that is caused by fluctuations due to time of day, time of month, season, what you recently ate and so one.

In the case of MRI the problem is that internal organs shift to the point that it is impossible to automatically compare. And a experienced doctor comparing the scan millimeter for millimeter takes hours and would be very expensive. Even just tracking the volume of a known tumor in the brain (that shifts very little) to track the effect of radiation is tedious, time consuming and error prone.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by duxup on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:12PM (#19963903)
> internal organs shift to the point that it is impossible to automatically compare

I didn't even know that is a thing, I just sorta assumed they stayed put.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by rolleiflex on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:31PM (#19964120)
You are a wet squishy clump of really advanced bacteria trying their damned best to physically hold together, barely alive. Don’t expect much. Human politics is the literal definition of shipping the org chart.
Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by pgeorgi on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:11PM (#19964628)
When undergoing abdominal radiation treatment, patients are asked to stop breathing to keep organs at their place (and not radiate healthy tissue), but apparently that still isn't good enough: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27773445
Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by cameronbrown on Monday May 20, 2019 @06:00PM (#19965728)
> internal organs shift to the point that it is impossible to automatically compare.

Seems like a good area to apply machine learning if we had enough data?

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by roywiggins on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:23PM (#19964030)
MRI scanners can only barely do quantitative evaluations... between different scanners, and different scanning protocols, your body may look quite a bit different and it is hard to know exactly how much variability to attribute to inter-scanner differences.

There are whole studies done to try and quantify this, and it requires sending "human phantoms"- test subjects- around to different scanners, which requires you to physically take one subject around to several scanners operated by different people and stick them in there for a while. It's really involved.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by stevesimmons on Monday May 20, 2019 @03:45PM (#19964323)
Even if we can't reliably compare a time series of images today, wouldn't it be useful to start scanning now, for use as baselines in several years once the state of the art improves?

In the same way astronomers can make new discoveries by digitizing photographic plates from a century ago.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by mattkrause on Monday May 20, 2019 @04:31PM (#19964839)
Nope. Really, it's a question of priorities.

Scanners cost a lot: ~4M for a 3T (the current 'standard') and much more for higher field strengths. We just got a 7T and, with all the trimmings (scanner, console, coils, the shielded room to hold it all, training, etc), it's in the $10-15M range.

As a result, time on these things is already in pretty high demand, even at facilities that are used only for research. The projects could be reprioritized, of course, but most of the on-going research is much less speculative than "someday, this can be training data for something."

It's not even clear to me that old MRI data will be particularly worthwhile. Photographic plates were, until recently, about as good as digital sensors. New MRIs are much, much better than old ones, and the tech will only improve more. Longitudinal data is useful in both fields, but for astronomy, there's no way to rewind time, so old plates are the only possible source for events from the past. We get new old people, however, every day!

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by copperx on Monday May 20, 2019 @05:35PM (#19965491)
> We just got a 7T

Where is that? Might be worth the trip in some cases.

Re:One whole-body MRI could replace multiple cancer scans by mattkrause on Monday May 20, 2019 @08:25PM (#19966631)
I'm in Montreal, but 7Ts are popping up all over, especially now that Siemen's Magnetom Terra got FDA approval.

I know Yale also has a 7T, as does the NIH, Stanford, and MGH (I think--it's somewhere in Boston). The University of Minnesota has THREE which is crazy.