News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by Fej on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:30PM (#19913594)
Yes, the vulnerabilities are not just Intel, but they're mostly limited to Intel CPUs. Why is AMD less prone to these mistakes? Perhaps there are simply fewer researchers looking into AMD processors?
Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by coliveira on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:39PM (#19913660)
This happens only because Intel went much further than AMD and other companies in exploring these effects. If other companies used speculative execution as much as Intel, the result would be the same. It is not a flaw of implementation, it is a flaw of basic design.
Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by bitL on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:36PM (#19914117)
They have different cache architectures; Intel uses inclusive (i.e. all levels contain keys from previous levels), AMD uses exclusive cache (each level contains unrelated entries to any other level). This might have different effects on classes of vulnerabilities they are prone to.
Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by TomVDB on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @06:11PM (#19914339)
I know that some AMD CPUs a long time ago had exclusive caches, but for Ryzen, I'm pretty sure that both L1 and L2 are inclusive, and L3 a victim cache.
Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by redrabbyte on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @06:26PM (#19924393)
the inclusivity types don't really play a role in these types of attack (until you get to a very practical stage where this might matter), not least because there are other sidechannels that can be exploited. an inclusive llc is just convenient.

that said, some newer Intel LLCs are non-inclusive, and amd changed its cache relations as well in ryzen

Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by jupp0r on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:37PM (#19913639)
The focus is on Intel partially because it's the most valuable target, so we might be looking at selection bias.
Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by Symmetry on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:46PM (#19913730)
That's really not the case. Once you know of an attack of this sort it's pretty easy to test everyone's chips for it. Bascially every Intel chip since Nehalem is vulnerable to Meltdown, as are IBM's POWER chips, as is one out-of-order ARM core but not any of the others. And we know that AMD chips are safe from that vulnerability.

Whether you run security checks in sequence or in parallel with a data access is pretty fundamental to the design of a core. Doing the later is has performance advantages but it's really hard to verify that won't be any architectural leaks as a result, let alone these micro-architectural leaks that nobody was thinking about.

Re:ZombieLoad: Cross Privilege-Boundary Data Leakage on Inte... by jupp0r on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:20PM (#19914005)
I agree with everything you say, but security researchers will still prefer searching for new vulnerabilities in Intel (which is hard, I hope we agree on that) and verify they don't work on AMD, rather than the other way around.