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Re:Crimes in Concrete by hairytrog on Monday May 13, 2019 @03:55PM (#19903265)
The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built). Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it - it is the ultimate arbiter of aesthetics/beauty/cultural significance/engineering excellence, and it trumps all the chatter of self-appointed critics. If it's garbage, we tear it down or stop maintaining it until it comes down on its own. Darlyrimple is right, "it's ugly, just look at it." These buildings may continue to fall because people don't like to use them. I'm just worried that people will adapt to like the buildings .
Re:Crimes in Concrete by IfOnlyYouKnew on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:13PM (#19904020)
> The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive.

This has become a cliché talking-point, but it isn't entirely true. Or, at least, it doesn't fully apply here.

The best contrast to "modernism" would be the episode directly preceding it, namely Art Nouveau or Jugendstil.

There are lots of European cities both large and small that were predominantly built in this style, because it coincided with the rapid growth of cities as industrialisation swept (parts of) Europe. While British cities and Paris are somewhat older, everything east of France saw a major growth spurt in this time.

Because construction was rather centralised, a great many houses of rather similar style were built.

My city, Berlin, is a prime example of this. The core city centre is somewhat older, but about 80% of the housing stock were built within 25 years around the turn of the 20th century.

Here's a street view of my house: https://goo.gl/maps/NRhfef2KEdx7yAET8

If you walk around a bit, you will see newer, mostly ugly buildings. But essentially no houses were ever demolished for aesthetic reasons. Every new house owes its existence to World War 2.

Here's a map showing building age on a block-by-block level: https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/so-alt-wohnt-berlin/ (click on "Karte aktivieren" to the right). If you hover over different blocks, you will note that for the vast majority, houses were built around the same time. The same is true for wider areas, generally becoming younger as one leaves the centre (as expected for a growing city.

For the "survival of the pretty" theory, one would expect more within-block heterogeneity, with one house surviving and it's direct (ugly) neighbour having been demolished and rebuilt.

Go to cities that weren't bombed, such as Budapest, and you will find entire quarters unchanged since they were built about 120 years ago.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by rauhl on Monday May 13, 2019 @08:16PM (#19905468)
> The best contrast to "modernism" would be the episode directly preceding it, namely Art Nouveau or Jugendstil.

Wasn’t Art Deco in between?

As an aside, I honestly don’t know why anyone tried to ‘improve’ art away from Art Nouveau/Arts & Crafts/Jugendstil: as far as I’m concerned they were the absolute pinnacle, the ne plus ultra of artistic endeavour. I mean, just look at William Morris’s work!

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jonhendry18 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:50PM (#19914202)
Are you saying your building is ugly and should have been replaced?

The older buildings probably haven't been replaced because they're attractive enough and work for the residents.

The post-war buildings probably haven't been replaced because, although less attractive, it isn't economical to do so.

There may also be municipal restrictions preventing them from being torn down and replaced, restrictions that probably wouldn't have existed pre-20th century.

If one were going to tear down such buildings and replace them it would probably be best for the replacement to be significantly taller, in order to make more money. But that might not be allowed.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by deogeo on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:59PM (#19904426)
Tangential, but what's with the censorship on that street view? Freedom of panorama issues?
Re:Crimes in Concrete by IfOnlyYouKnew on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:05PM (#19904938)
Privacy. There were some complaints about street view when it was introduced, and Google allowed any resident to block their house.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by sneak on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:22PM (#19905079)
Hello, former neighbor (I lived in the Paul-Lincke-Ufer, then at Lausitzer 21 for a while).

You live in perhaps the nicest residential neighborhood in the developed western world, as far as I can tell.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jweir on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:01PM (#19903918)
Sometimes this is true, sometimes this is not. The mess that is Penn Station comes to mind. The buildings and neighborhoods torn down for freeway projects come to mind.

Sometimes the new is all that is required to be better than the old.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jjtheblunt on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:44PM (#19904781)
Sadly, false: "Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it".

Many structures survive because their destruction would release regulated toxins, which were unregulated when built.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jonhendry18 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:54PM (#19914231)
On the other hand, they probably aren't still being used, either. Nor are they likely to be civic focal points like a city hall.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by dsfyu404ed on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:54PM (#19904854)
One way to read that is the regulation is preventing progress.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by chris1993 on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:15PM (#19905025)
But a better way to read it is that regulation is protecting us from the mistakes of the past. Unless you fancy inhaling asbestos?
Re:Crimes in Concrete by dsfyu404ed on Monday May 13, 2019 @09:03PM (#19905785)
>But a better way to read it is that regulation is protecting us from the mistakes of the past. Unless you fancy inhaling asbestos?

Well since we're playing the false dichotomy game I'd gladly take prosperity with a side of lung cancer over cancer free stagnation.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jonhendry18 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:53PM (#19914217)
Progress isn't going to be held up by a couple of acres remaining idle because nobody wants to pay the remediation costs.

Your notion of progress is weak.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jonhendry18 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:51PM (#19914211)
Disease is progress Ignorance is strength
Re:Crimes in Concrete by Retric on Monday May 13, 2019 @04:58PM (#19903897)
Comparing buildings by their external appearance is never going away, but many people just don’t care. Brutalist is thus never going away simply because at it’s core it was very utilitarian. The fad was mostly an over reaction, but sometimes you just want a large concrete box and anything else is a waste of resources.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by jonhendry18 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:58PM (#19914264)
Nobody minds brutalist architecture when it's used for a fortified airplane hangar.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by ht_th on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:05AM (#19907895)
> The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built).

Unfortunately, the city I live in has been burned, bombed, or otherwise destroyed a couple of times since it became a city in the late middle ages. This destruction happened regardless of likeability or sturdiness of the buildings involved.

Re:Crimes in Concrete by jonhendry18 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:55PM (#19914238)
If the buildings are valued enough, and the society can afford it, they are often rebuilt.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by pjc50 on Monday May 13, 2019 @04:18PM (#19903502)
Well, apart from the "listed building" system which freezes them on an entirely political basis.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by microtherion on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:08PM (#19903981)
Yes, my worry is not so much that architects build ugly or dysfunctional buildings (that has always happened), but that today's architects, once they manage to build something, tend to have quite a bit of power to prevent tearing down or altering their oeuvres, no matter how ill conceived.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by Gibbon1 on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:20PM (#19904090)
It's telling that architects feel the need to list their beautiful creations to keep them from being torn down by the philistines.
Re:Crimes in Concrete by pjc50 on Monday May 13, 2019 @05:21PM (#19904099)
It's not usually the architects themselves, it's more an intelligentsia thing.