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Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by leereeves on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:28AM (#19898138)
> All the members of the new mammal orders were small, under 10 kg.

I don't know if that statement is technically true but it's certainly misleading. Perhaps "all the members of the new mammal orders" were under 10kg, but not all mammals during the early Eocene were under 10kg.

Cambaytherium and Coryphodon, for example, lived during the early Eocene and were roughly pig sized and cow sized, respectively.[1,2]

In other words, that carefully phrased statement, if true, is a great example of the unscientific spin I was talking about.

> fossil evidence of crocodiles at the poles. That likely makes most of the temperate to equatorial zones uninhabitable for humans

We also see fossil evidence of large mammals in India. In the early Eocene temperatures differed less between the tropics and the poles and between winter and summer.

1: https://www.thoughtco.com/coryphodon-peaked-tooth-1093184

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambaytherium

Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by NeedMoreTea on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:54AM (#19898331)
> In other words, you seem to be suggesting that all the mammals that lived during that era were under 10kg, which would be a great example of the unscientific spin I was talking about.

I'm suggesting nothing of the kind, but directly quoting from the wikipedia page you linked. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

I will note that the Wiki page on Coryphodon says: "These changes in size are thought to be linked to global climate change, with the size minimum in the Coryphodon lineage occurring shortly after Paleocene-Eocene boundary". Which appears to indicate clear evolutionary pressure to evolve smaller.

The pressure on mammals appears to have been consistently toward smaller size, seen in newly evolved species and the evolution of existing species. We already know that heat penalises larger mammals harder than the small, so that does not seem inconsistent.

Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by leereeves on Monday May 13, 2019 @08:06AM (#19898422)
> for large species such as those of the size of say humanity, it seems to have been exceptionally hostile.

That was your statement, not Wikipedia. What was that based on if not the incorrect implication about the size of mammals?

Nonetheless, I've already edited my post to make it clear that I was talking about the implications of the statement from Wikipedia.

> The pressure on mammals appears to have been consistently toward smaller size

If "the size minimum in the Coryphodon lineage occurr[ed] shortly after Paleocene-Eocene boundary" then the decrease occurred before the early Eocene, not during. The temperature actually continued to increase for several million years after the Paleocene-Eocene boundary.[1]

That pressure might have been due to the rapid changes at the Paleocene–Eocene Thermal Maximum, not temperature itself, and after the thermal maximum, size increased again even with the higher temperatures.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Therm...

Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by NeedMoreTea on Monday May 13, 2019 @08:33AM (#19898609)
If there's evolutionary pressure on existing species to become smaller, and newly evolved species are smaller than those of preceding and following eras, it seems entirely reasonable to conclude it was somehow hostile for larger land mammals, no? That is not a statement that every single one was under 10kg or perfectly fit the identified trend.
Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by leereeves on Monday May 13, 2019 @08:43AM (#19898666)
We should remember that even during the adjacent times (the Paleocene and Middle Eocene) temperatures were about 8C higher than they are now, and large mammals (some of the largest ever) evolved during those times.

The decrease in size probably had more to do with the chaos wrought by whatever unknown event caused the thermal maximum than with the temperature itself.

To make this all more relevant: I'm not saying that climate change won't be disruptive. It will. I'm just saying we can adapt and endure. And I think we should plan for that, because we clearly aren't going to stop it.

Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by wnkrshm on Monday May 13, 2019 @10:20AM (#19899476)
It is interesting that with climate change, the public debate is mostly about 'is it man-made?' as if it'd just become a non-issue if it was. It's debating a fundamental point while we need practical solutions or even just concepts to cope with all sorts of interconnected problems on the entire spectrum of what we as humans are able to address - from microorganisms to geopolitics. While at this point, nobody is sure what will happen, societies will get a clearer picture of the imminent consequences over the next decades. At the moment, everyone seems to be waiting.
Re:CO2 in the atmosphere just exceeded 415ppm for the first ... by seszett on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:54AM (#19898338)
You might have disproved the point that all mammals very less than 10 Kg, but Wikipedia states on the Coryphodon[0] that the size of the species also decreased, and that "these changes in size are thought to be linked to global climate change". So the general argument certainly seems to hold.

It also "had one of the smallest brain/body ratios of any mammal, living or extinct" so that may not be the best example of how this kind of environment might be fit for humans.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coryphodon