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Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by nickpsecurity on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:34PM (#19880805)
In a lawsuit, Oracle pushed for API's to be copywritten, not just their implementation. They also have paid lobbyists. They're also greedy assholes. The combo of greedy assholes and the ability to rewrite the law is a dangerous one.

So, I don't use a language unless it's open with patent grants and has a non-malicious owner. At this point, Wirth's stuff is probably legally the safest.

Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by new4thaccount on Friday May 10, 2019 @06:50PM (#19883005)
I'm curious about the last part. Are you using Modula 2 or something?
Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by nickpsecurity on Sunday May 12, 2019 @08:58PM (#19895671)
I don't have any public projects to release right now. So, I don't have to worry about getting sued. Modula 2 was nice but you could use any of Wirth's with low risk. Although Lisp's had lots of companies involved, Scheme is probably safe with PreScheme aiming for low-level use. A Racket dialect with C/C++ features like ZL language had could be extremely powerful and safe.

Rust, with Mozilla backing it, is probably not going to get you sued. Nim has potential given their commercial interests are paid development and support so far. As in, less greedy they are the better. Languages with community-focused foundations, such as Python, controlling them are probably pretty safe. Although it was risky, the D language now has a foundation. Although no foundation or legal protections, the Myrddin and Zig languages are being run by folks that look helpful rather than predatory.

So, there's you a few examples you might consider if avoiding dependencies on companies likely to pull shit in the future. Venture-backed, publicly-traded, growth-at-all-costs, and/or profit-maximizing-at-all-costs are examples of what to avoid if wanting to future-proof against evil managers turning it from good dependency into bad one.

Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by microcolonel on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:37PM (#19881488)
> copywritten

copyrighted

"Copywritten" probably means nothing, but if it did, it would have something to with copy writing, the act of writing for publication (usually commercial, usually not long-form).

Added: FYI "copyrighting" is not a conscious decision, or an action you can take. Copyright emerges automatically when you create a work, what they've done is defend their copyright in court, and the courts have mixed opinions on the matter.

Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by chc on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:35PM (#19881973)
That is a gross mischaracterization of what Oracle did. They didn't just defend a copyright in court. They pushed to extend copyright to a mostly functional element that copyright law has not traditionally been thought to cover. It's a tremendously harmful viewpoint for interoperability.
Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by btilly on Friday May 10, 2019 @05:19PM (#19882346)
Not just "not traditionally been thought to cover", but which existing precedent said DID NOT cover.

Does it surprise anyone that this case was decided by the Federal Circuit? The rogue court most consistently overturned by the Supreme Court, which also is responsible for most of the disastrous software patent cases out there.

The only bright light is that the Supreme Court has reopened the question. Given how often they overturn the Federal Circuit, we have real hope that we'll return to the previous precedent. Which is that since matching APIs is a functional part of how code works, and things that are functional are by law not copyrightable, APIs are not copyrightable.

Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by CobrastanJorji on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:12PM (#19881764)
Yes, copywritten isn't a word, but their point was that Oracle pushed for API's to be copywritable, which was not the case before their suit. It's an incredibly bad result with many shitty implications that are currently mostly being ignored but could lead to legal nuclear war at any time.
Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by jcranendonk on Friday May 10, 2019 @06:27PM (#19882858)
Not to belabor the point, but... "copyrightable".
Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by microcolonel on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:23PM (#19881887)
> It's an incredibly bad result with many shitty implications that are currently mostly being ignored but could lead to legal nuclear war at any time.

I mean, it has been big news, and it has already been nuclear war, with Oracle putting Google in a position to switch android from Dalvik (and successors) to OpenJDK. I agree that it could become a pretty horrible precedent (imagine if Microsoft forbade Sun from implementing Excel functions in StarOffice, or for that matter, if MS were prevented from producing Excel in the first place).

Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by pron on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:34PM (#19881962)
> imagine if Microsoft forbade Sun from implementing Excel functions in StarOffice, or for that matter, if MS were prevented from producing Excel in the first place

The things you're talking about are already protected by patents, and the copyrightability of APIs have nothing to do with them. At the very least, for something to be copyrightable it must be some specific fixed expression (a piece of text, image, video or audio). So the O v. G ruling applies only to actual (code) APIs; not to protocols (or REST "APIs") and certainly not to stuff that's already protected by patents (the distinction between the two may not always make sense to programmers, but it is what it is; for example, algorithms are patentable but not copyrightable, while programs are copyrightable but not patentable).

Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by hdfbdtbcdg on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:45PM (#19882067)
You should do some reasearch on the Oracle vs Google case.
Re:IT Runs on Java 8 by microcolonel on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:41PM (#19884404)
It's literally no different. Excell has APIs just like Java, it's just the code goes in cells rather than on lines.