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Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by LarryDarrell on Friday May 03, 2019 @01:03PM (#19820136)
If you were designing a society starting from scratch today and said, "I think we should make having health insurance largely dependent on having an employer.", you would be laughed out of the room.

I think we are running along some tracks that were laid long ago, and rather than all jumping off, some people in comfy Pullman cars are content with letting the train run off a cliff.

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by clarkmoody on Friday May 03, 2019 @05:03PM (#19822254)
Employer-provided healthcare is an aberration created by government interference in the market.

> Employer-provided health insurance has its origin in a tax policy passed in 1943, which made insurance provided by employers tax free. At the time the United States was engaged in World War II and had enacted wage and price controls, preventing employers from competing for scarce labor using the normal mechanism of offering a higher salary. Instead, businesses used the availability of newly tax-subsidized healthcare as a means of differentiating themselves.

> The tax advantages were made even more attractive and fully codified in the 1954 Internal Revenue Code. Over the next few decades, the government's subsidization of employer-provided health insurance lead to the dominance of that model of healthcare delivery...[1]

So steps that got us here:

1. Enter into WWII

2. Enact price & wage controls

3. Create tax loophole for employer-provided plans

4. Enshrine loophole into the tax code

These are not market phenomena, since government intervention got us here.

[1] https://mises.org/library/whats-really-wrong-healthcare-indu...

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by heylook on Friday May 03, 2019 @07:51PM (#19823282)
Who cares? GP didn't say anything about "market" or "not-market". It's dumb that we're here. Full stop.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by lordlimecat on Friday May 03, 2019 @08:09PM (#19823362)
It's dumb that we're here, but knowing the history suggests a possible solution.

What if the government was able to pass legislation banning employer healthcare? I imagine the issue of healthcare coverage would resolve very shortly thereafter.

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by briffle on Friday May 03, 2019 @02:15PM (#19820845)
I find it odd that some executive gets to pick which 401k and health insurance plans you get, and that you must pick from their few choices that allow you to have. I can see why the providers love it, they can target all their advertising, marketing, etc, at a few key people at large employers, but not sure how that benefits the average worker..
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by SlowRobotAhead on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:07PM (#19821795)
You can get an individual 401K or IRA and make all your own choices. If you're talking about an employer matched 401K, I don't think it's unreasonable at all for them to select it.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by jogjayr on Saturday May 04, 2019 @03:32AM (#19825011)
> If you're talking about an employer matched 401K, I don't think it's unreasonable at all for them to select it.

What's special about 401k matching that requires the employer to choose plans? My employer doesn't force me to have a checking account with a particular bank they chose if I want to receive my salary. They should be able to match contributions to any account anywhere.

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by SlowRobotAhead on Saturday May 04, 2019 @11:49AM (#19827179)
I don’t know if you understand how 401K matching works on the backend.

A lot of times the employers are capped on their own plans at a percentage rate that matches their employee’s participating. So matching is often in their best interest, esp at smaller companies.

But, easier version is this is a perk, not your base salary. They are paying you with legal tender and there are freedoms associated to that. There is no such thing for perks.

You aren’t entitled to make the administration choices for something they are gifting you.

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by jogjayr on Saturday May 04, 2019 @02:04PM (#19828095)
> I don’t know if you understand how 401K matching works on the backend. A lot of times the employers are capped on their own plans at a percentage rate that matches their employee’s participating.

I actually do not understand this. Could you please explain more? What does an employer being "capped on their own plans" mean?

> But, easier version is this is a perk, not your base salary

When I make a decision on a job offer, the 401k match, health insurance premium, free lunch and snacks etc. all factor in and they're all worth a certain amount of money. Money is money and how it's labeled, "perk" or "base", is irrelevant. If my employer ends 401k matching, I'll treat it as a pay cut mentally.

My ultimate "fantasy" is to eliminate 401k altogether and instead let everyone contribute whatever the 401k annual limit is to an IRA. The employer can simply add matching funds to your IRA and you're free to have your retirement accounts anywhere you please.

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by ivalm on Sunday May 05, 2019 @06:57PM (#19835610)
There are no "free perks" in employment contracts. These are money equivalents, just like RSUs, free lunches, and other benefits. I make employment contract decisions based on these benefits. If my employer materially alters these benefits I would change my place of employment, just as if they lowered my base salary.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by andyv on Friday May 03, 2019 @06:05PM (#19822698)
I have a work friend who dislikes our company 401k plan. Every year, he rolls the money into another 401k that he likes.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by snowwrestler on Friday May 03, 2019 @04:11PM (#19821837)
If I was designing a society from scratch, I don't think I would create "insurance" that is expected to pay for almost every routine, non-emergency, completely predictable cost just because it's a medical cost.

The employer-provided system--which arose out of WWII-era wage controls, for those who don't know--has not only created the "have/have not" dichotomy in U.S. healthcare, it has also warped expectations about what "insurance" is supposed to cover--and broken normal pricing mechanisms.

Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by delecti on Friday May 03, 2019 @01:53PM (#19820623)
I happen to agree that the system is broken and getting worse, but that's not necessarily a good metric for whether you should change any given system now.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by WrtCdEvrydy on Friday May 03, 2019 @01:58PM (#19820678)
Individualism in America is the main cause... if you just got taxed and didn't have to worry about healthcare, people wouldn't care, but they all think that it could never happen to them.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by CarriersSuck on Friday May 03, 2019 @03:33PM (#19821527)
Americans think the poor are slackers and they don't deserve anything. Even poor Americans think the "other" poor are slackers and don't deserve anything. Nothing will change until you change this mindset.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by weberc2 on Friday May 03, 2019 @03:56PM (#19821704)
This is a pretty bold statement. How many Americans do you know?
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by CarriersSuck on Monday May 06, 2019 @01:45PM (#19841883)
I've lived in the US all my life, so quite a few.
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by pnutjam on Friday May 03, 2019 @02:07PM (#19820766)
to be fair, they think there are wings on their pullman cars. There aren't, but still...
Re:Employees Start to Feel the Squeeze of High-Deductible He... by justinmchase on Friday May 03, 2019 @03:38PM (#19821553)
If you're designing a society from scratch and you end up with employers, insurance or money at all, then you probably are doing it wrong, lol